16 ms·

ownership is different from actually having ops capabilities, I do not think there is a button somewhere is Beijing that China can use to just turn off Austral

ownership is different from actually having ops capabilities, I do not think there is a button somewhere is Beijing that China can use to just turn off Australian power plant on Australian soil. The most China can do to sell the asset and temporary depress its price.

coenhyde 8y ago
agreed
bdamm 8y ago
As a vector for inserting software viruses ownership is second to none.
manicdee 8y ago
The Australian market is routinely manipulated by pretending to turn off equipment until the price rises sufficiently to pretend to turn the equipment on just in time for the high price market. So yes, there is "a button somewhere" that a private owner can use to just turn off Australian power plants on Australian soil.
- adventured 8y ago
  That's interesting, the US has an almost entirely privatized energy generation market and doesn't routinely have that problem. I've read a bit about Australia's energy problems over the years, I'm unaware of how they regulate pricing though. The US has very strict rules in place for its private utilities. Private + tight controls has resulted in the US having close to the cheapest power in the developed world. Roughly 1/3 the cost of Germany's or Australia's electricity. Privatization doesn't explain Australia's numerous disastrous energy choices and policies.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    Incorrect. "Tapes Show Enron Arranged Plant Shutdown" In the midst of the California energy troubles in early 2001, when power plants were under a federal order to deliver a full output of electricity, the Enron Corporation arranged to take a plant off-line on the same day that California was hit by rolling blackouts, according to audiotapes of company traders released here on Thursday. The tapes and memorandums were made public by a small public utility north of Seattle that is fighting Enron over a power contract. They also showed that Enron, as early as 1998, was creating artificial energy shortages and running up prices in Canada in advance of California's larger experiment with deregulation.... https://outline.com/f2N42r https://outline.com/f2N42r (nytimes) Also: Enron defrauded California out of billions during energy ... https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/05/enro-m10.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/05/enro-m10.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
  - slededit 8y ago
    California's problems in the early 2000s were caused by exactly that. Here's one tape where a trader asks an operator to "get a little creative and find a reason to go down". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBnnUIEZiNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBnnUIEZiNI I'm not sure if its really been fixed or if its just not as aggressive.

coenhyde 8y ago

agreed

bdamm 8y ago

As a vector for inserting software viruses ownership is second to none.

manicdee 8y ago

The Australian market is routinely manipulated by pretending to turn off equipment until the price rises sufficiently to pretend to turn the equipment on just in time for the high price market. So yes, there is "a button somewhere" that a private owner can use to just turn off Australian power plants on Australian soil.

adventured 8y ago
That's interesting, the US has an almost entirely privatized energy generation market and doesn't routinely have that problem. I've read a bit about Australia's energy problems over the years, I'm unaware of how they regulate pricing though. The US has very strict rules in place for its private utilities. Private + tight controls has resulted in the US having close to the cheapest power in the developed world. Roughly 1/3 the cost of Germany's or Australia's electricity. Privatization doesn't explain Australia's numerous disastrous energy choices and policies.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  Incorrect. "Tapes Show Enron Arranged Plant Shutdown" In the midst of the California energy troubles in early 2001, when power plants were under a federal order to deliver a full output of electricity, the Enron Corporation arranged to take a plant off-line on the same day that California was hit by rolling blackouts, according to audiotapes of company traders released here on Thursday. The tapes and memorandums were made public by a small public utility north of Seattle that is fighting Enron over a power contract. They also showed that Enron, as early as 1998, was creating artificial energy shortages and running up prices in Canada in advance of California's larger experiment with deregulation.... https://outline.com/f2N42r https://outline.com/f2N42r (nytimes) Also: Enron defrauded California out of billions during energy ... https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/05/enro-m10.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/05/enro-m10.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
- slededit 8y ago
  California's problems in the early 2000s were caused by exactly that. Here's one tape where a trader asks an operator to "get a little creative and find a reason to go down". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBnnUIEZiNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBnnUIEZiNI I'm not sure if its really been fixed or if its just not as aggressive.