6 ms·

Is this why these companies have such intensive leet coding interview processes? In other professions a degree + exams alone is enough. I can't imagine an inte

Is this why these companies have such intensive leet coding interview processes? In other professions a degree + exams alone is enough. I can't imagine an interview where a doctor has to perform surgery "as a take home interview" without pay or be able to solve obscure problems from chemistry, biology, etc.

bengale 8y ago
The same ones complaining about struggling to find talent in my experience. As if anyone who knows the value of their work wants to work for free.
- alunchbox 8y ago
  And yet, too many times people undervalue themselves.
xkcd-sucks 8y ago
Medical schools are still rigorous (presumably). Undergrad degrees are glorified participation trophies.
- xenihn 8y ago
  So are many CS MS programs, provided you can pass the math classes.
twblalock 8y ago
I've interviewed a lot of people at this point and I just can't rely on a CS degree as a guarantee of competence. I've interviewed (and worked with) people with degrees from excellent CS programs who were bad engineers. Some of them must have cheated in their CS courses because they were outright incompetent -- but they were able to get degrees. It's a serious problem that we don't have a good way to tell if someone is good at software engineering. Unfortunately degrees don't guarantee anything. So we use whiteboarding, which isn't great either. I'm not really sure we should want degrees to be a guarantee of competence anyway. If the industry relied on them it could lead to a culture of credentialism that would make it more difficult for good engineers without CS degrees to get jobs. Some of the best engineers I've worked with have degrees in other subjects.
- reads_at_work 8y ago
  Agreed. Considering how important this problem is, you'd think there would be a generally accepted solution that was both effective at finding the right candidate and efficient with resources (both the candidate's and the company's). As far as I know, there isn't one.
- PopeDotNinja 8y ago
  > Some of them must have cheated in their CS courses because they were outright incompetent I suspect they just didn't want to be software peeps. I suck at anything I don't wanna do, and I find a way to get better at anything I'm really interested in.
- expertentipp 8y ago
  One can say this about any other profession, can't one? The notary I met while buying my last apartment was a sham, he probably cheated while studying. Guess what? My acquaintance rubber-stamps papers like no one else, one of the best paper rubber-stamping guys I know.
reads_at_work 8y ago
To be fair, there's a board certification process for doctors that they are typically expected to pass before being considered for employment. You could argue this is their version of a 'take-home' interview.

bengale 8y ago

The same ones complaining about struggling to find talent in my experience. As if anyone who knows the value of their work wants to work for free.

alunchbox 8y ago
And yet, too many times people undervalue themselves.

xkcd-sucks 8y ago

Medical schools are still rigorous (presumably). Undergrad degrees are glorified participation trophies.

xenihn 8y ago
So are many CS MS programs, provided you can pass the math classes.

twblalock 8y ago

I've interviewed a lot of people at this point and I just can't rely on a CS degree as a guarantee of competence. I've interviewed (and worked with) people with degrees from excellent CS programs who were bad engineers. Some of them must have cheated in their CS courses because they were outright incompetent -- but they were able to get degrees. It's a serious problem that we don't have a good way to tell if someone is good at software engineering. Unfortunately degrees don't guarantee anything. So we use whiteboarding, which isn't great either. I'm not really sure we should want degrees to be a guarantee of competence anyway. If the industry relied on them it could lead to a culture of credentialism that would make it more difficult for good engineers without CS degrees to get jobs. Some of the best engineers I've worked with have degrees in other subjects.

reads_at_work 8y ago
Agreed. Considering how important this problem is, you'd think there would be a generally accepted solution that was both effective at finding the right candidate and efficient with resources (both the candidate's and the company's). As far as I know, there isn't one.
PopeDotNinja 8y ago
> Some of them must have cheated in their CS courses because they were outright incompetent I suspect they just didn't want to be software peeps. I suck at anything I don't wanna do, and I find a way to get better at anything I'm really interested in.
expertentipp 8y ago
One can say this about any other profession, can't one? The notary I met while buying my last apartment was a sham, he probably cheated while studying. Guess what? My acquaintance rubber-stamps papers like no one else, one of the best paper rubber-stamping guys I know.

reads_at_work 8y ago

To be fair, there's a board certification process for doctors that they are typically expected to pass before being considered for employment. You could argue this is their version of a 'take-home' interview.