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The Political Education of Silicon Valley
- peteretep 8y agoTLDR: They're liberals, in the classic, The Economist sense of the word.
- erikb 8y agoFrom an American point of view the word "liberal" and "public healthcare" work together? From a German perspective that's the opposite area. In the traditional German system we would call that "left". But now that the "right" is growing again, an objective observer will notice that they, too, are interest in a strong social system as core of a internally strong government policy. Only very few Germans would call themselves "libertarian", so for an international discussion it would probably also be good to hear your distinction between liberal and libertarian.
- mhluongo 8y agoClassically liberal is a term that predates libertarian, and is distinguished from American liberalism. Thus the modifier
- bachbach 8y agoWhat causes confusion is that both the Democrats and Republicans descend from the Enlightenment political philosophy called Liberalism - the same is true of Labour and Tories. I didn't completely grasp this for a very long time despite understanding 'American Liberals' were not the same as 'Classical Liberals' - it's not intuitive. To prevent confusion the etymology is the same as the word "Christian". Both Catholics and Protestants are Christians. Sometimes one will claim to be more 'Christian' than the other but that is beside the point: to a non-Westerner they're the same group. The same is true of the word "Liberal". Democrat Liberals, Progressives, Conservatives, Republicans, Libertarians - these are all species of Liberal. What this means may be found controversial by some people. This would mean in the West, or at least in the Anglosphere political authority is typically wielded by two competing variants of the same political philosophy. I find this interesting because that is not at all what is advertised. For years I thought the differences between China's One Party State and the West were plain to see but now I think the distinction is less obvious. Going back to my Christianity analogy, it may be an argument over The Holy Trinity - both completely different and also the same simultaneously. Is the West a Two Party System with one faction? Is China a One Party System with multiple factions? If so what's the real difference or is there a real difference? There's a strange perspective distortion where the differences are either enormous or minor but it's hard to tell which - I speculate that metapolitics has a Lovecraftian quality to it where it might not be possible to understand without going insane. :)
- gizmo686 8y agoThe west has always been open about having a single political philosophy. We fought an entire cold war to make sure that capitalism beet communism. Even today, the west is still openly democratic, and desires to support that political view globally (not as much as it desires stability and wealth, but all else equal, it will support the democratic option)
- swiley 8y agoIn the US, liberal and libertarian refer to opposite ends of the spectrum. Libertarian is the same as a “classical liberal” (what you might think of when you hear the word) and liberal means something left of moderate. Ex: Barak Obama is a liberal, Ron Paul is a libertarian.
- whatshisface 8y ago>Libertarian is the same as a “classical liberal” I always thought libertarians were a mix between conservative and liberal, because they opposed progressivism sometimes (when it involved spending money and regulating anybody) and supported it whenever it involved abolishing regulations.
- Balero 8y agoOP was referencing Liberalism as a political movement in the UK[1]. This grew as a left of centre party in opposition to the right-of-centre Tories and was formed with the idea of changing traditional values and practices (such as limiting the power of the monarch). "Classical liberals were committed to individualism, liberty and equal rights". There beliefs in no way had a problem with public healthcare, but would have issues with curtailing free speech, or a curtailing of free enterprise. Today I think a classic liberal would be in the centre of the political spectrum. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
- ringbugger 8y agoSo liberals are basically libertarians. But smart.
- tormeh 8y agoIt's complicated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
- ringbugger 8y agoLibertarianism seems to lack some of the contradictions that liberlism seems to suffer from (freedom and equality will at some point exclude themselves) Still, since Liberalism tries to find a balance in its inherent values, Libertarianism seems to be dogmatic without any further depth. Dreamy technocrats or wishful anarchists, who would get angry if labeled as such. The US is indeed different here, but I would stand to my opinion, that Liberals generally have far more thought-provoking arguments.
- Balero 8y ago"(freedom and equality will at some point exclude themselves) " I don't think that freedom and equality of opportunity exclude each other any more than freedom excludes itself. Frankly I would go one further and say that equality of opportunity is freedom, and that rules impinging on equality of opportunity is impinging on freedoms as well. It is not a contradiction that freedom can exclude freedom. My freedom to own land excludes your freedom to do what you want with it, etc.
- koolba 8y ago> If you plot those values on the matrix of conventional US politics, there appears to be a contradiction: The tech elite want an activist government, but they don’t want the government actively restricting them. Fringes aside, I think that sums up everybody. The difference is that most regulation doesn’t directly impact the average Joe.
- princekolt 8y ago> I think that sums up everybody. I think that sums up everybody that doesn't understand how effective governments work. Regulations are an intrinsic part of them and the libertarians know that. That's why they're against them. It's a lot easier to create tax loopholes when you don't have thousands of regulations to worry about.
- TomMarius 8y agoLibertarians don't want to pay taxes in the first place because they believe they can buy equivalent or better service for the same price or cheaper on the free market and stop overpaying for services that are useless or actively harmful, like e.g. most of FDA regulation, zoning, building codes, etc. How does that relate to tax loopholes at all?
- maxxxxx 8y ago"useless or actively harmful, like e.g. most of FDA regulation," You should be careful with such sentences. Maybe it's ok to say "some" but saying "most" is nonsense and dangerous.