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Sure, companies have to adapt to markets. But inserting code like this, buggy or not, is a cowardly act by Apple. They should be ashamed, and apologize.

by koops 8y ago

pavs 8y ago
but they are champion of privacy or something like that. And google who walked out of China because they refused to bend to their rules are the bad guys.
- brisance 8y ago
  You do know that Hong Kong is technically part of China, right?
  - wyuenho 8y ago
    You do know Hong Kong is very different from China right? It's a separate jurisdiction, economy, language, culture etc...
    - brisance 8y ago
      Yes, which is why Google is still operating in Hong Kong, which is part of China, which is my point. Your's?
      - pavs 8y ago
        Just having a point is not good enough. It needs to make some sense. China Hing Kong and China Mainland was always a separate entity. China Hong Kong Google site still remains blocked in China mainland (last I checked), because Google refuses to comply with China laws regarding privacy. Google has other business interest that doesn't require direct access to customer data and products that can be only developed for Chinese consumers. Google remains the only major company in the world that I know of that refused to do business with China over privacy concern.
        brisance 8y ago
        So your argument is that Google values privacy, so it doesn’t operate in China. But if it were to operate in China, it has to obey Chinese laws. Agree or disagree? As for the first part, explain to me how Google values privacy when it circumvented Safari’s built in privacy protection and was fined for it. So how does your argument make sense? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/aug/09/google-record-fine-ftc-safari https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/aug/09/google-re...
        pavs 8y ago
        No that doesn't make sense at all. You don't seem to understand the difference. https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-AOSP-stock-Android-stock-rom-Lineage-OS-and-TouchWiz https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-AOSP-... https://www.quora.com/Will-Android-phones-work-well-in-China https://www.quora.com/Will-Android-phones-work-well-in-China Google Play store does not work on China, Apple app store works. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billions-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billion... Edit: You completely changed your original comment I replied to. That put my comment out of context. That's a very douchy move, esp you didn't mention that you changed your comment.
        brisance 8y ago
        I copy-pasted the wrong reply to the window, and corrected it while you were formulating your reply. There’s no way to edit a comment once it has been replied to, so there’s no way for me to put an edit reason. But thanks for the ad hominen attack.
        brisance 8y ago
        BTW, here’s a bonus question. Explain how the “champion of privacy that doesn’t operate in China” collects Android users’ locations even when location services are disabled. The practice was stopped only when they got caught, and this only happened last year. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/ https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...
rrggrr 8y ago
I'm having a hard time understanding what is cowardly about complying with Chinese law when selling products inside China. There are many laws in the US I don't agree with, but I'm obligated to comply with them for as long as I choose to live here and remain a citizen. For example, its essentially US law that Apple's officers have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholder's best interests. Not participating in the Chinese cellular market over principle violates that principal of law. If you want Apple to be "brave" then persuade the US Congress to require that Apple not comply with repressive Chinese law; or convince Apple's shareholders to prohibit the same. Short of those outcomes Apple is doing precisely what its supposed to be doing.
- wyuenho 8y ago
  > Apple is doing precisely what its supposed to be doing. Such as aidding and abetting authoritarian foreign governments to suppress freedom of speech. I'm having a hard time understanding why you are having a hard time understanding why this is cowardly, given that Apple is not particularly cowardly when it decided to stand up to US government surveillance.
  - dewey 8y ago
    That is such a simplistic view of things. Do you think they'd do it if there was another way? At that scale things are not that easy and you can't just break the law even if it feels "right" to you. Most users are probably never subject to government intervention and they are still protected by the encryption from thiefs, evil ISPs and other bad actors. If Apple would pull out completely and get banned in the country they'd maybe have to switch to other companies that are not that privacy minded.
    - deathhand 8y ago
      Well traditionally tech companies leave open gaps for the average Joe to do the law breaking themselves. If the concept of Taiwan is illegal then it would be a add-on available from other sources. Given how closed source and how rudimentary text input is to an OS I do not know how feasible this is for an IPhone.

Sure, companies have to adapt to markets. But inserting code like this, buggy or not, is a cowardly act by Apple. They should be ashamed, and apologize.

by koops 8y ago

Sure, companies have to adapt to markets. But inserting code like this, buggy or not, is a cowardly act by Apple. They should be ashamed, and apologize.

pavs 8y ago

but they are champion of privacy or something like that. And google who walked out of China because they refused to bend to their rules are the bad guys.

brisance 8y ago
You do know that Hong Kong is technically part of China, right?
- wyuenho 8y ago
  You do know Hong Kong is very different from China right? It's a separate jurisdiction, economy, language, culture etc...
  - brisance 8y ago
    Yes, which is why Google is still operating in Hong Kong, which is part of China, which is my point. Your's?
    - pavs 8y ago
      Just having a point is not good enough. It needs to make some sense. China Hing Kong and China Mainland was always a separate entity. China Hong Kong Google site still remains blocked in China mainland (last I checked), because Google refuses to comply with China laws regarding privacy. Google has other business interest that doesn't require direct access to customer data and products that can be only developed for Chinese consumers. Google remains the only major company in the world that I know of that refused to do business with China over privacy concern.
      - brisance 8y ago
        So your argument is that Google values privacy, so it doesn’t operate in China. But if it were to operate in China, it has to obey Chinese laws. Agree or disagree? As for the first part, explain to me how Google values privacy when it circumvented Safari’s built in privacy protection and was fined for it. So how does your argument make sense? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/aug/09/google-record-fine-ftc-safari https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/aug/09/google-re...
        pavs 8y ago
        No that doesn't make sense at all. You don't seem to understand the difference. https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-AOSP-stock-Android-stock-rom-Lineage-OS-and-TouchWiz https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-AOSP-... https://www.quora.com/Will-Android-phones-work-well-in-China https://www.quora.com/Will-Android-phones-work-well-in-China Google Play store does not work on China, Apple app store works. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billions-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billion... Edit: You completely changed your original comment I replied to. That put my comment out of context. That's a very douchy move, esp you didn't mention that you changed your comment.
        brisance 8y ago
        I copy-pasted the wrong reply to the window, and corrected it while you were formulating your reply. There’s no way to edit a comment once it has been replied to, so there’s no way for me to put an edit reason. But thanks for the ad hominen attack.
        brisance 8y ago
        BTW, here’s a bonus question. Explain how the “champion of privacy that doesn’t operate in China” collects Android users’ locations even when location services are disabled. The practice was stopped only when they got caught, and this only happened last year. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/ https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

rrggrr 8y ago

I'm having a hard time understanding what is cowardly about complying with Chinese law when selling products inside China. There are many laws in the US I don't agree with, but I'm obligated to comply with them for as long as I choose to live here and remain a citizen. For example, its essentially US law that Apple's officers have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholder's best interests. Not participating in the Chinese cellular market over principle violates that principal of law. If you want Apple to be "brave" then persuade the US Congress to require that Apple not comply with repressive Chinese law; or convince Apple's shareholders to prohibit the same. Short of those outcomes Apple is doing precisely what its supposed to be doing.

wyuenho 8y ago
> Apple is doing precisely what its supposed to be doing. Such as aidding and abetting authoritarian foreign governments to suppress freedom of speech. I'm having a hard time understanding why you are having a hard time understanding why this is cowardly, given that Apple is not particularly cowardly when it decided to stand up to US government surveillance.
- dewey 8y ago
  That is such a simplistic view of things. Do you think they'd do it if there was another way? At that scale things are not that easy and you can't just break the law even if it feels "right" to you. Most users are probably never subject to government intervention and they are still protected by the encryption from thiefs, evil ISPs and other bad actors. If Apple would pull out completely and get banned in the country they'd maybe have to switch to other companies that are not that privacy minded.
  - deathhand 8y ago
    Well traditionally tech companies leave open gaps for the average Joe to do the law breaking themselves. If the concept of Taiwan is illegal then it would be a add-on available from other sources. Given how closed source and how rudimentary text input is to an OS I do not know how feasible this is for an IPhone.