5 ms·

This all very useful information and well written but I have to ask, do undergraduates really not know this or at least figure it out very quickly? I would expe

by somabc 16y ago

This all very useful information and well written but I have to ask, do undergraduates really not know this or at least figure it out very quickly? I would expect students who are investing large sums of money to be better prepared than just turning expecting High School plus with a generous helping of A's them a nice job? Perhaps it is different in the USA than elsewhere?

jseliger 16y ago
do undergraduates really not know this or at least figure it out very quickly? Some do, but my impression is that most don't. I didn't, as I wrote; I knew that most smart people go to college, but I didn't know how college was structured (nor did I know how high school was structured, or what was wrong with the structure of high school; for more on that, see http://jseliger.com/2009/11/12/susan-engel-doesnt-get/ http://jseliger.com/2009/11/12/susan-engel-doesnt-get/ ). Maybe some students figure out the structure of universities quickly through osmosis, but again, I wasn't one. If this essay hastens the process, then I've done something useful in the world.
- zandor 16y ago
  Very useful in my opinion. Universities are strange institutions, especially when you don't know how they work.
kd0amg 16y ago
I would expect students who are investing large sums of money to be better prepared So did I. I spent a lot of time during high school looking over options of where to study. When I enrolled, I knew almost as much about the CS department's course offerings and degree programs as the faculty did as well as what courses I would take to fulfill my general education requirements. I was very confused at the large proportion of students I encountered who knew very little about the teachings their departments (and the university) offered. While I now acknowledge that this is the way things are, I still do not understand why. I have not determined whether this correlates with the degree to which students put effort into their own education; this should make for some interesting conversations (I think I'll start with my brother).
- jseliger 16y ago
  While I now acknowledge that this is the way things are, I still do not understand why. I'll posit some reasons: I didn't know what I wanted to major in or what I wanted to study. This is very common, as is switching majors. It's also hard to evaluate schools because so many factors go into a decision: large or small school, big university or small college, scholarships, tuition costs, geographic proximity, faculty sizes, student culture... the list goes on. And the people choosing are 17- and 18-year-olds, most of whom aren't particularly well formed or knowledgeable about their interests. There's a reason why you're supposed to discover yourself at the university: because most people don't know themselves before they go. There's a reason why the bildungsroman is such a popular genre: most people go through phases when growing up and learning about the world. Maybe you did so earlier than most. I didn't. I also think that most people are bad at anticipating what their future selves will want. That also applies to me, and my feeling has been reinforced by books like Philip Zimbardo and John Boyd's _The Time Paradox_, in which they talk about time preferences and how those change. One reason I like Paul Graham's "What You'll Wish You'd Known": http://paulgraham.com/hs.html http://paulgraham.com/hs.html is the hang glider metaphor: you don't know where you'll want land, so stay upwind. If you _knew_ that you wanted to be a CS major and you stayed in that major throughout your college experience, you're in the minority of students.

by somabc 16y ago

jseliger 16y ago

do undergraduates really not know this or at least figure it out very quickly? Some do, but my impression is that most don't. I didn't, as I wrote; I knew that most smart people go to college, but I didn't know how college was structured (nor did I know how high school was structured, or what was wrong with the structure of high school; for more on that, see http://jseliger.com/2009/11/12/susan-engel-doesnt-get/ http://jseliger.com/2009/11/12/susan-engel-doesnt-get/ ). Maybe some students figure out the structure of universities quickly through osmosis, but again, I wasn't one. If this essay hastens the process, then I've done something useful in the world.

zandor 16y ago
Very useful in my opinion. Universities are strange institutions, especially when you don't know how they work.

kd0amg 16y ago

I would expect students who are investing large sums of money to be better prepared So did I. I spent a lot of time during high school looking over options of where to study. When I enrolled, I knew almost as much about the CS department's course offerings and degree programs as the faculty did as well as what courses I would take to fulfill my general education requirements. I was very confused at the large proportion of students I encountered who knew very little about the teachings their departments (and the university) offered. While I now acknowledge that this is the way things are, I still do not understand why. I have not determined whether this correlates with the degree to which students put effort into their own education; this should make for some interesting conversations (I think I'll start with my brother).

jseliger 16y ago
While I now acknowledge that this is the way things are, I still do not understand why. I'll posit some reasons: I didn't know what I wanted to major in or what I wanted to study. This is very common, as is switching majors. It's also hard to evaluate schools because so many factors go into a decision: large or small school, big university or small college, scholarships, tuition costs, geographic proximity, faculty sizes, student culture... the list goes on. And the people choosing are 17- and 18-year-olds, most of whom aren't particularly well formed or knowledgeable about their interests. There's a reason why you're supposed to discover yourself at the university: because most people don't know themselves before they go. There's a reason why the bildungsroman is such a popular genre: most people go through phases when growing up and learning about the world. Maybe you did so earlier than most. I didn't. I also think that most people are bad at anticipating what their future selves will want. That also applies to me, and my feeling has been reinforced by books like Philip Zimbardo and John Boyd's _The Time Paradox_, in which they talk about time preferences and how those change. One reason I like Paul Graham's "What You'll Wish You'd Known": http://paulgraham.com/hs.html http://paulgraham.com/hs.html is the hang glider metaphor: you don't know where you'll want land, so stay upwind. If you _knew_ that you wanted to be a CS major and you stayed in that major throughout your college experience, you're in the minority of students.