7 ms·

Facebook lost more than Tesla's market cap

155 points by skshetry 9y ago

killjoywashere 9y ago
World's smallest fiddle, Zuck. World's smallest fiddle.
twblalock 9y ago
The stock will come back, just as Wells Fargo, United Airlines, and Intel stock came back after their scandals. Facebook in particular will come back because there is no alternative social network with nearly as many people on it. The fundamentals of the business aren't really at risk -- most of the users will stay. The impact of potential privacy-related regulation is already priced in to a large extent because everyone already knew that GDPR was going to happen before this latest scandal broke, and Facebook was already prepared to comply with it. I doubt the US Congress in its current state would pass anything as strict as that.
- stochastic_monk 9y ago
  I hope this sticks. My family is quitting it, after thinking I was odd for not being on it the last few years. I don’t like being a product. Yes, Google products still make money off me, but I try to minimize it, and they’re at least slightly less callous.
  - sigstoat 9y ago
    > ... they’re at least slightly less callous or at least better at not getting caught.
  - tjr225 9y ago
    > I don’t like being a product. I'm right there with you. I try not to use Google products either...I guess probably the only one I explicitly use still is Waze...there needs to be a mapping/traffic alternative.
    - ekovarski 9y ago
      I find I use Waze far less frequently or only for the last leg of the trip to find a nearby parking lot; Judging by the lack of fresh reports for road issues or speed traps, I'd say more folks might also be using other products. Their ads are also annoying esp when you are navigating your last leg of the trip and need to concentrate and it shows irrelevant ads.
- xbmcuser 9y ago
  Why is a social network needed. Maybe because I am mostly a loner so I don't get it. I was on Facebook for few years as more people that I knew got on it just made get off it.
  - asteli 9y ago
    I'm not a loner, but I did find that it wasn't that hard to adjust to not having FB. One imagines all the things you'll miss out on by not having it, but honestly, you don't need to see what the deepest crevices of your social network are up to. People you're actually close to matter 100x more, and you're going to stay in touch with those people regardless.
    - gnode 9y ago
      I also find that (at least in my social network) many friends don't broadcast their lives (and rightly so), so you need to talk to people anyway to get the real picture. What you see in a social network is limited to content that people want to broadcast.
    - ekovarski 9y ago
      Very true, wasn't there an adage about to find out who your real friends are just post that you need help moving and see how many show up. It's like being a cable cutter, at first you think you will miss out on a lot but you quickly realize that it ain't so bad and that the world didn't end.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    I don't get it either. Email has always worked just fine for me to stay in touch with friends and family. I have a Facebook account that I set up for some service that needed it for a login. But I've never used it beyond that.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - jedberg 9y ago
- tanilama 9y ago
  Using their messenger app, not the main app.
- Erlangolem 9y ago
  I think the scandals will keep coming, the media will keep banging the drum, and I think people will demand regulation. A few techie libertarians won’t even be heard amidst that noise. People already have had serious reservations about how fast things have been changing, and if you think that death by robot car and privacy violation by social media isn’t going to create a backlash, you’re not reading your history. It won’t help the tech sector that “old media” has everything to gain by keeping this dripfeed going. This is a first wave, and while it will recede, there are more and bigger waves to come.
- raiyu 9y ago
  It's true that many companies come back from scandal but it really depends on the impact to the bottom line. Chipotle had tremendous negative press years ago from food poisoning issues and hasn't recovered since. Even though the number of instances are in the single digits compared to millions of burritos served on a monthly basis. With social media boycott campaigns it's hard to separate the noise from impact on the bottom line but with recent stories of Uber and what was occurring behind the scenes, the #DeleteUber campaign actually did have a negative impact on the bottomline that was felt and was definitely a huge driver for the board moving to remove Travis which is underreported as everyone instead focuses on the drama that occurred as that sells as a better story from the press side. With Facebook it will really be about how many people truly delete Facebook. The difference of course is that every Uber user was generating significantly more revenue on average than the avg Facebook user, so the number of users that delete Facebook would have to be much more significant. Also interesting, is what is the global response. Is this localized to the US, are many people globally doing the same thing? If it doesn't impact the bottom line through a massive amount of users deleting, then the stock will bounce back well before the next quarterly earnings report.
  - spyspy 9y ago
    Disclosure: I bought more FB today You covered the fundamental reason why Facebook _could_ suffer from this but I believe it won’t. Uber is very easy to ditch because it has well-known competitors that are just or almost as good and readily available. And uber doesn’t have years of photos, friends and interactions that I’d be losing.
    - pksadiq 9y ago
      > Disclosure: I bought more FB today May be you can consider the moral side of what you are doing, if you care. This makes me really sad. People say, they care about privacy - theirs and others'. But they are okay making money investing for the same.
      - twblalock 9y ago
        How does investing in Facebook stock help Facebook? It's not like Facebook gets the money. The guy you buy the stock from gets the money. You know what would do good in the world? Invest in evil companies and use the profits to fund advocacy against what they are doing. Turn their success against them. But if you refuse to invest in companies you don't like, it makes no difference to them at all.
- asteli 9y ago
  Why do we need a social network with so many people on it? What is the unique utility of Facebook? The ability to monitor and feel a vague sense of presence from the periphery of your social sphere? It's definitely not about social fulfillment.
- itronitron 9y ago
  facebook is no longer filling the need so an opening is created for some young upstart to fill and draw away its user base, the larger the gap the more potential there is for the next gen to _myspace_ facebook
- OrganicMSG 9y ago
  People will now be looking to jump and developers just got a huge motivation to build alternatives. Facebook will survive for a while, but I think we may be seeing their high water mark.
panarky 9y ago
Facebook isn't going to disappear, but the company's valuation has fast growth baked in the cake. We're already seeing dramatic deterioration in DAUs and minutes per user. This episode will cause a few users to leave Facebook completely, but many more will use it less. And that deceleration in the growth rate will need to be offset with an acceleration in earnings and cash flow for the stock price to increase from here.
- bsaul 9y ago
  Most people i've seen move away from facebook ended up in instagram and whatsapp. So i'm not worried for the stock in the long term. They do however need to prepare for the post-instragram era. Not sure what it's going to be.
  - collective 9y ago
    oculus
  - pyjammas 9y ago
    I've been curious about what the effects are of people moving to Instagram and WhatsApp. I'm not too familiar with the former, but am I correct in assuming it's less useful, compared to FB proper, for both ads and information gathering? And with WhatsApp, if everything is indeed end-to-end encrypted, would this not be even more the case? Instead of a steady supply of chats, photos, location data, FB would 'only' have metadata to work with. And ads are probably not really a realistic option at all. Unless I'm wrong about all that, I imagine the value of these two platforms is significantly lower than the original value of Facebook (to them, anyways)
    - deepbreath 9y ago
      The WhatsApp client could still learn your interests from your conversations and request ads related to them from the server.
      - pyjammas 9y ago
arthurofbabylon 9y ago
A lot of commentary here (not all) seems to miss one critical point: what is the inherent value of Facebook to its users, and has THAT been recently degraded? Controversy aside, this will be the big factor behind an exodus from Facebook, and I would argue that for months if not a year or more, Facebook has ceased to provide value to an enormous portion of its user base.
- gnode 9y ago
  If by users you mean the people with Facebook profiles, then the value to them doesn't matter, only engagement matters, being addictive and depressing is a winning strategy here, at least short-term. What matters is the value of Facebook to its customers. If users lose touch with the platform, consume less ads, and yield less data, then that will matter to Facebook.
toni_erika 8y ago
So, an already oversized company that has been loosing business to startups for several years is gonna do more work in-house?

155 points by skshetry 9y ago

World's smallest fiddle, Zuck. World's smallest fiddle.

The stock will come back, just as Wells Fargo, United Airlines, and Intel stock came back after their scandals. Facebook in particular will come back because there is no alternative social network with nearly as many people on it. The fundamentals of the business aren't really at risk -- most of the users will stay. The impact of potential privacy-related regulation is already priced in to a large extent because everyone already knew that GDPR was going to happen before this latest scandal broke, and Facebook was already prepared to comply with it. I doubt the US Congress in its current state would pass anything as strict as that.

stochastic_monk 9y ago
I hope this sticks. My family is quitting it, after thinking I was odd for not being on it the last few years. I don’t like being a product. Yes, Google products still make money off me, but I try to minimize it, and they’re at least slightly less callous.
- sigstoat 9y ago
  > ... they’re at least slightly less callous or at least better at not getting caught.
- tjr225 9y ago
  > I don’t like being a product. I'm right there with you. I try not to use Google products either...I guess probably the only one I explicitly use still is Waze...there needs to be a mapping/traffic alternative.
  - ekovarski 9y ago
    I find I use Waze far less frequently or only for the last leg of the trip to find a nearby parking lot; Judging by the lack of fresh reports for road issues or speed traps, I'd say more folks might also be using other products. Their ads are also annoying esp when you are navigating your last leg of the trip and need to concentrate and it shows irrelevant ads.
xbmcuser 9y ago
Why is a social network needed. Maybe because I am mostly a loner so I don't get it. I was on Facebook for few years as more people that I knew got on it just made get off it.
- asteli 9y ago
  I'm not a loner, but I did find that it wasn't that hard to adjust to not having FB. One imagines all the things you'll miss out on by not having it, but honestly, you don't need to see what the deepest crevices of your social network are up to. People you're actually close to matter 100x more, and you're going to stay in touch with those people regardless.
  - gnode 9y ago
    I also find that (at least in my social network) many friends don't broadcast their lives (and rightly so), so you need to talk to people anyway to get the real picture. What you see in a social network is limited to content that people want to broadcast.
  - ekovarski 9y ago
    Very true, wasn't there an adage about to find out who your real friends are just post that you need help moving and see how many show up. It's like being a cable cutter, at first you think you will miss out on a lot but you quickly realize that it ain't so bad and that the world didn't end.
- ams6110 9y ago
  I don't get it either. Email has always worked just fine for me to stay in touch with friends and family. I have a Facebook account that I set up for some service that needed it for a login. But I've never used it beyond that.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- jedberg 9y ago
tanilama 9y ago
Using their messenger app, not the main app.
Erlangolem 9y ago
I think the scandals will keep coming, the media will keep banging the drum, and I think people will demand regulation. A few techie libertarians won’t even be heard amidst that noise. People already have had serious reservations about how fast things have been changing, and if you think that death by robot car and privacy violation by social media isn’t going to create a backlash, you’re not reading your history. It won’t help the tech sector that “old media” has everything to gain by keeping this dripfeed going. This is a first wave, and while it will recede, there are more and bigger waves to come.
raiyu 9y ago
It's true that many companies come back from scandal but it really depends on the impact to the bottom line. Chipotle had tremendous negative press years ago from food poisoning issues and hasn't recovered since. Even though the number of instances are in the single digits compared to millions of burritos served on a monthly basis. With social media boycott campaigns it's hard to separate the noise from impact on the bottom line but with recent stories of Uber and what was occurring behind the scenes, the #DeleteUber campaign actually did have a negative impact on the bottomline that was felt and was definitely a huge driver for the board moving to remove Travis which is underreported as everyone instead focuses on the drama that occurred as that sells as a better story from the press side. With Facebook it will really be about how many people truly delete Facebook. The difference of course is that every Uber user was generating significantly more revenue on average than the avg Facebook user, so the number of users that delete Facebook would have to be much more significant. Also interesting, is what is the global response. Is this localized to the US, are many people globally doing the same thing? If it doesn't impact the bottom line through a massive amount of users deleting, then the stock will bounce back well before the next quarterly earnings report.
- spyspy 9y ago
  Disclosure: I bought more FB today You covered the fundamental reason why Facebook _could_ suffer from this but I believe it won’t. Uber is very easy to ditch because it has well-known competitors that are just or almost as good and readily available. And uber doesn’t have years of photos, friends and interactions that I’d be losing.
  - pksadiq 9y ago
    > Disclosure: I bought more FB today May be you can consider the moral side of what you are doing, if you care. This makes me really sad. People say, they care about privacy - theirs and others'. But they are okay making money investing for the same.
    - twblalock 9y ago
      How does investing in Facebook stock help Facebook? It's not like Facebook gets the money. The guy you buy the stock from gets the money. You know what would do good in the world? Invest in evil companies and use the profits to fund advocacy against what they are doing. Turn their success against them. But if you refuse to invest in companies you don't like, it makes no difference to them at all.
asteli 9y ago
Why do we need a social network with so many people on it? What is the unique utility of Facebook? The ability to monitor and feel a vague sense of presence from the periphery of your social sphere? It's definitely not about social fulfillment.
itronitron 9y ago
facebook is no longer filling the need so an opening is created for some young upstart to fill and draw away its user base, the larger the gap the more potential there is for the next gen to _myspace_ facebook
OrganicMSG 9y ago
People will now be looking to jump and developers just got a huge motivation to build alternatives. Facebook will survive for a while, but I think we may be seeing their high water mark.

panarky 9y ago

Facebook isn't going to disappear, but the company's valuation has fast growth baked in the cake. We're already seeing dramatic deterioration in DAUs and minutes per user. This episode will cause a few users to leave Facebook completely, but many more will use it less. And that deceleration in the growth rate will need to be offset with an acceleration in earnings and cash flow for the stock price to increase from here.

bsaul 9y ago
Most people i've seen move away from facebook ended up in instagram and whatsapp. So i'm not worried for the stock in the long term. They do however need to prepare for the post-instragram era. Not sure what it's going to be.
- collective 9y ago
  oculus
- pyjammas 9y ago
  I've been curious about what the effects are of people moving to Instagram and WhatsApp. I'm not too familiar with the former, but am I correct in assuming it's less useful, compared to FB proper, for both ads and information gathering? And with WhatsApp, if everything is indeed end-to-end encrypted, would this not be even more the case? Instead of a steady supply of chats, photos, location data, FB would 'only' have metadata to work with. And ads are probably not really a realistic option at all. Unless I'm wrong about all that, I imagine the value of these two platforms is significantly lower than the original value of Facebook (to them, anyways)
  - deepbreath 9y ago
    The WhatsApp client could still learn your interests from your conversations and request ads related to them from the server.
    - pyjammas 9y ago

arthurofbabylon 9y ago

A lot of commentary here (not all) seems to miss one critical point: what is the inherent value of Facebook to its users, and has THAT been recently degraded? Controversy aside, this will be the big factor behind an exodus from Facebook, and I would argue that for months if not a year or more, Facebook has ceased to provide value to an enormous portion of its user base.

gnode 9y ago
If by users you mean the people with Facebook profiles, then the value to them doesn't matter, only engagement matters, being addictive and depressing is a winning strategy here, at least short-term. What matters is the value of Facebook to its customers. If users lose touch with the platform, consume less ads, and yield less data, then that will matter to Facebook.

toni_erika 8y ago

So, an already oversized company that has been loosing business to startups for several years is gonna do more work in-house?