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I have seen these in bangalore, in fact there is one very close to my office. One of the things that concerns me with such projects is that how they effect othe

I have seen these in bangalore, in fact there is one very close to my office. One of the things that concerns me with such projects is that how they effect other eateries in the area. The one near my office that opened recently is on a street with about 5 other eateries. Having a eatery which is subsidized by government distorts this local market and adversely affects the other businesses in the area since they also cater to similar demographic with largely similar products. So while on its own this might be a good initiative, the economic impact of such initiatives might be more harmful to the local area economy. It s like creating more homeless so you can built shelter homes. A better way to do the same thing might be just to issue food vouchers which the people can use to by the food of their choice from any of the other eateries. It provides affordable food to those who cannot afford and also supports the smaller businesses.

mark212 9y ago
unless those eateries are super-basic, it doesn't sound like this is competition for them. The canteens offer one meal of two items for a fixed price. Anyone with more means will surely choose a more varied menu and better service / ambiance, wouldn't they? (at least most of the time; I would totally go there for a lunch or quick breakfast from time to time.)
rbanffy 9y ago
To control the issuing of food vouchers would add overhead to the system and probably need to be means tested.
baybal2 9y ago
May be. Even in a country as poor as India, food is not a double percentage of income spending even for a moderately well off person. It is better to have underemployed, and socially marginalized people fed well and healthy, than to deal with consequences of them not having access to proper nutrition.
zacurry 9y ago
I have seen the crowd at indira canteens and they are not the clientele of the near by eateries.I think this is a much better way than food coupons to be used at private restaurants , which is ripe for correction in a country like india.
spodek 9y ago
> Having a eatery which is subsidized by government distorts this local market and adversely affects the other businesses in the area since they also cater to similar demographic with largely similar products. Same in the U.S. about McDonald's, fast food, and other junk food sellers whose product is based on corn, soy, beef, and other recipients of billions of dollars of subsidy and unaccounted externalities.
skybrian 9y ago
It's a good point about local businesses but I wonder why a big provider of cheap food like this doesn't happen without government help? Also, why not cash instead of food vouchers?
AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
That would really depend on what the target demographic was of those neighboring eateries, wouldn't it? I'll use an American analogy to illustrate, and so I'm sorry in advance if it doesn't translate well. In the Washington D.C. area (where I have several friends working), the restaurants are overwhelmingly high-end. A meal at a standard Panera bread is one of the more affordable options, and costs you somewhere between $12-15. Assuming said person works minimum wage, they're making $12.50/hr. In the longterm, that's really not sustainable, as they're spending an hour of their work-time just to be able to eat during the workday. Suppose a Subway opens next door, and, additionally, suppose their $5 footlong still existed (it doesn't, but stay with me). The people who previously went to Panera start going to Subway because it's more affordable. Yeah, the Panera suffers, but many of the people that ate there couldn't really afford to eat there in the first place, and would have eventually stopped when their dwindling finances made it impossible. Now on the other hand, if Subway was our base price and a government-subsidized eatery opens up with complete meals for $2, then yes, I can see how that might be a problem.
- shostack 9y ago
  Without judging people's situations, I have to wonder at why people earning minimum wage would be eating out at Panera vs bringing lunch from home for much less money.
  - abhi3 9y ago
    Most people are migrant laborers, they don't have families in the city or home.
    - _nothing 9y ago
      What does that have to do the above reply?
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
  - 9y ago
baybal2 9y ago
I remember my time in Shenzhen back in 2007 (or in 2009 if my memory fails me) when I was transiting through the city to Singapore. Back then, I was surprised how much even seemingly low income people were dishing out on food. When line 9 was just opened, there was no underground connection in between it and line 4 in Shangmeilin. Food cart owners who set up shops on the sandlot in between stations, were allegedly having turnovers closing on 5k usd per day in first months after opening given how many commuters going to and from factories were passing by that place. Food there was rather basic, but quite expensive. 30CNY for a big bowl of beef noodle soup, more than double than what you expected for street food back then, yet I have not seen a single time when there was no lineup.
laythea 9y ago
I agree, but they may not have that luxury. If they offered food vouchers I am not sure they could achieve the economies of scale that seem to facilitate these types of things. Ie. 13 cents would not buy the same amount of food at a regular shop than a 13 cent food voucher to be used at a mass canteen.
piyushpr134 9y ago
uncle, kitni baar khana khate ho Indira canteen main ?
flukus 9y ago
Doesn't this also open up the opportunity to value add? If the food is bland they can sell sauce packets to spice it up, sides, drinks, etc. The money they saved on food could be money they now have to spend on other things.
fencepost 9y ago
> One of the things that concerns me with such projects is that how they effect other eateries in the area. Probably less than you might imagine, for more than one reason. First, it adds another attractor to the area, and while some people will only get the cheapest food others will at least occasionally have a desire for and money for something different or fancier. Those decisions may very well not be made until the person or group is already in that area. This is why many restaurants are often found in clusters. Second, for some of the nicer options this may mean a shift from people getting everything as cheap as possible (but still more than the cost now) to people being able to save money on 1-2 meals a day and getting something nicer for another at one of those commercial entities. Finally, while some places that would be most directly in competition might fail other businesses will surely move in to capture the business of the crowds of people who now have a little more money available to spend.

mark212 9y ago

unless those eateries are super-basic, it doesn't sound like this is competition for them. The canteens offer one meal of two items for a fixed price. Anyone with more means will surely choose a more varied menu and better service / ambiance, wouldn't they? (at least most of the time; I would totally go there for a lunch or quick breakfast from time to time.)

rbanffy 9y ago

To control the issuing of food vouchers would add overhead to the system and probably need to be means tested.

baybal2 9y ago

May be. Even in a country as poor as India, food is not a double percentage of income spending even for a moderately well off person. It is better to have underemployed, and socially marginalized people fed well and healthy, than to deal with consequences of them not having access to proper nutrition.

zacurry 9y ago

I have seen the crowd at indira canteens and they are not the clientele of the near by eateries.I think this is a much better way than food coupons to be used at private restaurants , which is ripe for correction in a country like india.

spodek 9y ago

> Having a eatery which is subsidized by government distorts this local market and adversely affects the other businesses in the area since they also cater to similar demographic with largely similar products. Same in the U.S. about McDonald's, fast food, and other junk food sellers whose product is based on corn, soy, beef, and other recipients of billions of dollars of subsidy and unaccounted externalities.

skybrian 9y ago

It's a good point about local businesses but I wonder why a big provider of cheap food like this doesn't happen without government help? Also, why not cash instead of food vouchers?

AdmiralAsshat 9y ago

That would really depend on what the target demographic was of those neighboring eateries, wouldn't it? I'll use an American analogy to illustrate, and so I'm sorry in advance if it doesn't translate well. In the Washington D.C. area (where I have several friends working), the restaurants are overwhelmingly high-end. A meal at a standard Panera bread is one of the more affordable options, and costs you somewhere between $12-15. Assuming said person works minimum wage, they're making $12.50/hr. In the longterm, that's really not sustainable, as they're spending an hour of their work-time just to be able to eat during the workday. Suppose a Subway opens next door, and, additionally, suppose their $5 footlong still existed (it doesn't, but stay with me). The people who previously went to Panera start going to Subway because it's more affordable. Yeah, the Panera suffers, but many of the people that ate there couldn't really afford to eat there in the first place, and would have eventually stopped when their dwindling finances made it impossible. Now on the other hand, if Subway was our base price and a government-subsidized eatery opens up with complete meals for $2, then yes, I can see how that might be a problem.

shostack 9y ago
Without judging people's situations, I have to wonder at why people earning minimum wage would be eating out at Panera vs bringing lunch from home for much less money.
- abhi3 9y ago
  Most people are migrant laborers, they don't have families in the city or home.
  - _nothing 9y ago
    What does that have to do the above reply?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- 9y ago

baybal2 9y ago

I remember my time in Shenzhen back in 2007 (or in 2009 if my memory fails me) when I was transiting through the city to Singapore. Back then, I was surprised how much even seemingly low income people were dishing out on food. When line 9 was just opened, there was no underground connection in between it and line 4 in Shangmeilin. Food cart owners who set up shops on the sandlot in between stations, were allegedly having turnovers closing on 5k usd per day in first months after opening given how many commuters going to and from factories were passing by that place. Food there was rather basic, but quite expensive. 30CNY for a big bowl of beef noodle soup, more than double than what you expected for street food back then, yet I have not seen a single time when there was no lineup.

laythea 9y ago

I agree, but they may not have that luxury. If they offered food vouchers I am not sure they could achieve the economies of scale that seem to facilitate these types of things. Ie. 13 cents would not buy the same amount of food at a regular shop than a 13 cent food voucher to be used at a mass canteen.

piyushpr134 9y ago

uncle, kitni baar khana khate ho Indira canteen main ?

flukus 9y ago

Doesn't this also open up the opportunity to value add? If the food is bland they can sell sauce packets to spice it up, sides, drinks, etc. The money they saved on food could be money they now have to spend on other things.

fencepost 9y ago

> One of the things that concerns me with such projects is that how they effect other eateries in the area. Probably less than you might imagine, for more than one reason. First, it adds another attractor to the area, and while some people will only get the cheapest food others will at least occasionally have a desire for and money for something different or fancier. Those decisions may very well not be made until the person or group is already in that area. This is why many restaurants are often found in clusters. Second, for some of the nicer options this may mean a shift from people getting everything as cheap as possible (but still more than the cost now) to people being able to save money on 1-2 meals a day and getting something nicer for another at one of those commercial entities. Finally, while some places that would be most directly in competition might fail other businesses will surely move in to capture the business of the crowds of people who now have a little more money available to spend.