46 ms·

"Yup, they're Nazis". What more due process do you require?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
noir_lord 9y ago
There was a post on twitter earlier that said "Take your first name and your last name, that's your Nazi-fighting name". I asked "Actual Nazi's like National Socialists with a Eugenics campaign, or people we just don't like". Did not go well. We should be careful to a) not call everything Nazi and thereby dilute the effect b) call people are actual Nazi's whatever the fuck you want, they can all go die quietly for all I care.
- fiblye 9y ago
  Point A is something people don't realize they need to be careful with. The terms "racist" and "sexist" have been so overused and reduced to meaninglessness in the past few years, that true sexism and racism have been allowed to grow and become publicly visible. People can just brush off or even proudly own up to accusations because it's been so wrongly applied so often. "Nazi" used to be a thing that people used to call politicians they didn't like online. Now everyone is calling everybody a nazi everywhere. It'll get to a "Who cares if they're a nazi?" point pretty quickly.
  - noir_lord 9y ago
    Yep and you lose (in a general sense) a convenient way of summarising a narrow and dangerous political ideology for a moments gratification in saying "Don't listen them, they are a Nazi". I don't call someone a Nazi unless they are literally a Nazi, I don't call them a Fascist unless they are literally a Fascist and I don't call them a Communist because they think that maybe corporations shouldn't have the game rigged in their favour and own the pitch. The part I really like is when I've been attacked by people with largely similar views to my own for sticking up for the rights of people to hold different views. If you think your argument is stronger, then make the damn argument, don't resort to name calling and lazy "but he's a Foo and we all know that Foo's can never be right, stupid Foo's". There are people on the hard-right in the UK I can't stand and there are some who have some valid points, you can accept the validity of some points without accepting the argument. Also while I'm venting, I fucking hate "what aboutism", "Foo's have been doing <bad things>" "yeah but what about what the Bars did"...yeah both Foo and Bar can be cunts at the same time, We are talking about Foo in this instance, lets get to Bar's later. My philosophy is "You have a right to think whatever you want, You don't have any rights to make me think it". I'd rather have reasonable debate over a wide range of issues than furious debate over a narrow spectrum as Chomsky warned about in Manufacturing Consent (I think, I need to re-read that book).
    - thinkfurther 9y ago
      > I don't call someone a Nazi unless they are literally a Nazi What's a "literal Nazi" to you then? A member of the historical NSDAP? edit: Also, note while you're all talking to each other and patting yourself on the back about how you're so great at discussing ideas, none of you even tried answer my question: what more due process do you require? Do you disagree with the assessment? This reminds me of a comment on HN I read recently, where someone said they had to insert a delay into a website so customers would think they're doing some really serious data crunching (which they did, but just too quickly for it to "feel" that way -- for people who don't know what's going on, at all).
      - noir_lord 9y ago
        Pretty much or at least an organisation that adheres to all or the preponderance of the tenets of the ideology. While I might suspect the Stormfronters would like to do that I don't know that they would, authoritarian fascists, sure, Nazi's not really. Maybe it's because I like history and I've read a lot about WWII and the factors that led up to it but I'm careful with the world Nazi. Been a race supremacist doesn't mean Nazi because logically a Black Panther would also be a Nazi then. Been hard-right doesn't make you a Nazi because then the Republican party would be Nazi's. Been pro-eugenics doesn't make you a Nazi because then the government of the UK, US and USSR where Nazi (in the early 20th century). Been pro-nationalism doesn't make you a Nazi because then well half the governments on the planet would be Nazi's. Been a race supremacist, hard right and pro-eugenics and nationalist just might.
        thinkfurther 9y ago
        Tell me what "the ideology" is then.
        nemothekid 9y ago
        Did you even finish reading his post? >[Being] a race supremacist, hard right and pro-eugenics and nationalist just might.
- AndrewKemendo 9y ago
  Actual Nazi's like National Socialists with a Eugenics campaign, or people we just don't like How about the test being whether they are waving the Nazi flag? That's pretty unambiguous.
  - moogly 9y ago
    Unless they're being paid to wave that flag by that PewDiePie character.
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  I guess you haven't had a chance to go check their website. Maybe you should, before you spend too much time trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. These people are self-declared Nazis, and they do fantasize about killing all kinds of minorities.
Ygg2 9y ago
> What more due process do you require? That sounds like something a Nazi would say.
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  I'm not saying it, I'm asking it. What more do you need than swastikas and glorification of the holocaust and so on? I love how the bar there seems to be raised so high that even Adolf Hitler might not qualify as Nazi to some people here, but I simply ask a question, and that's being like a Nazi. I can do and am things a Nazi cannot do and isn't. I also can be brutal and hateful, like when I get sick of all these snakes on this motherfucking plane. I can do everything they can, but also so much more. That is the difference.
  - Ygg2 9y ago
    Well Adolf would need to be pro and against abortion, pro and against LGBT rights, since that was the usage for Nazi before this started. A political slur. If everyone is Nazi, no one is. I was more warning of general, "He is a Nazi he doesn't have any rights", sentiment. Any bad actor can devise an identity that isn't Nazi, and prey on vulnerable by making them look like Nazis. I mean it wouldn't be hard to make ACLU look like Nazis for defending neo-Nazis.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

There was a post on twitter earlier that said "Take your first name and your last name, that's your Nazi-fighting name". I asked "Actual Nazi's like National Socialists with a Eugenics campaign, or people we just don't like". Did not go well. We should be careful to a) not call everything Nazi and thereby dilute the effect b) call people are actual Nazi's whatever the fuck you want, they can all go die quietly for all I care.

fiblye 9y ago
Point A is something people don't realize they need to be careful with. The terms "racist" and "sexist" have been so overused and reduced to meaninglessness in the past few years, that true sexism and racism have been allowed to grow and become publicly visible. People can just brush off or even proudly own up to accusations because it's been so wrongly applied so often. "Nazi" used to be a thing that people used to call politicians they didn't like online. Now everyone is calling everybody a nazi everywhere. It'll get to a "Who cares if they're a nazi?" point pretty quickly.
- noir_lord 9y ago
  Yep and you lose (in a general sense) a convenient way of summarising a narrow and dangerous political ideology for a moments gratification in saying "Don't listen them, they are a Nazi". I don't call someone a Nazi unless they are literally a Nazi, I don't call them a Fascist unless they are literally a Fascist and I don't call them a Communist because they think that maybe corporations shouldn't have the game rigged in their favour and own the pitch. The part I really like is when I've been attacked by people with largely similar views to my own for sticking up for the rights of people to hold different views. If you think your argument is stronger, then make the damn argument, don't resort to name calling and lazy "but he's a Foo and we all know that Foo's can never be right, stupid Foo's". There are people on the hard-right in the UK I can't stand and there are some who have some valid points, you can accept the validity of some points without accepting the argument. Also while I'm venting, I fucking hate "what aboutism", "Foo's have been doing <bad things>" "yeah but what about what the Bars did"...yeah both Foo and Bar can be cunts at the same time, We are talking about Foo in this instance, lets get to Bar's later. My philosophy is "You have a right to think whatever you want, You don't have any rights to make me think it". I'd rather have reasonable debate over a wide range of issues than furious debate over a narrow spectrum as Chomsky warned about in Manufacturing Consent (I think, I need to re-read that book).
  - thinkfurther 9y ago
    > I don't call someone a Nazi unless they are literally a Nazi What's a "literal Nazi" to you then? A member of the historical NSDAP? edit: Also, note while you're all talking to each other and patting yourself on the back about how you're so great at discussing ideas, none of you even tried answer my question: what more due process do you require? Do you disagree with the assessment? This reminds me of a comment on HN I read recently, where someone said they had to insert a delay into a website so customers would think they're doing some really serious data crunching (which they did, but just too quickly for it to "feel" that way -- for people who don't know what's going on, at all).
    - noir_lord 9y ago
      Pretty much or at least an organisation that adheres to all or the preponderance of the tenets of the ideology. While I might suspect the Stormfronters would like to do that I don't know that they would, authoritarian fascists, sure, Nazi's not really. Maybe it's because I like history and I've read a lot about WWII and the factors that led up to it but I'm careful with the world Nazi. Been a race supremacist doesn't mean Nazi because logically a Black Panther would also be a Nazi then. Been hard-right doesn't make you a Nazi because then the Republican party would be Nazi's. Been pro-eugenics doesn't make you a Nazi because then the government of the UK, US and USSR where Nazi (in the early 20th century). Been pro-nationalism doesn't make you a Nazi because then well half the governments on the planet would be Nazi's. Been a race supremacist, hard right and pro-eugenics and nationalist just might.
      - thinkfurther 9y ago
        Tell me what "the ideology" is then.
        nemothekid 9y ago
        Did you even finish reading his post? >[Being] a race supremacist, hard right and pro-eugenics and nationalist just might.
AndrewKemendo 9y ago
Actual Nazi's like National Socialists with a Eugenics campaign, or people we just don't like How about the test being whether they are waving the Nazi flag? That's pretty unambiguous.
- moogly 9y ago
  Unless they're being paid to wave that flag by that PewDiePie character.
dguaraglia 9y ago
I guess you haven't had a chance to go check their website. Maybe you should, before you spend too much time trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. These people are self-declared Nazis, and they do fantasize about killing all kinds of minorities.

Ygg2 9y ago

> What more due process do you require? That sounds like something a Nazi would say.

thinkfurther 9y ago
I'm not saying it, I'm asking it. What more do you need than swastikas and glorification of the holocaust and so on? I love how the bar there seems to be raised so high that even Adolf Hitler might not qualify as Nazi to some people here, but I simply ask a question, and that's being like a Nazi. I can do and am things a Nazi cannot do and isn't. I also can be brutal and hateful, like when I get sick of all these snakes on this motherfucking plane. I can do everything they can, but also so much more. That is the difference.
- Ygg2 9y ago
  Well Adolf would need to be pro and against abortion, pro and against LGBT rights, since that was the usage for Nazi before this started. A political slur. If everyone is Nazi, no one is. I was more warning of general, "He is a Nazi he doesn't have any rights", sentiment. Any bad actor can devise an identity that isn't Nazi, and prey on vulnerable by making them look like Nazis. I mean it wouldn't be hard to make ACLU look like Nazis for defending neo-Nazis.