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>which he wasn't. I'm sure you have sources that disprove his sources. How about you post them.

intern4tional 9y ago
He's most likely referencing his next two lines down, "As part of Google's mandatory diversity training, one is presented with Google's internal research claiming that unconscious bias is real and measurable, and that diversity hiring yields both better individual and group performance. Google has a line which they feel is backed by research..." so he can't post that data publicly as it is Google's private research. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist though, just that we won't get access to it.
- elevenfist 9y ago
  > "... that diversity hiring yields both better individual and group performance." This is a well-known, well-researched fact of organizational psychology. Are you guys really this stupid? Think about it from a problem-solving perspective, in terms of the solutions individuals and groups will come up with. Sexism, racism, and discrimination in general doesn't benefit anyone but the wealthiest few, and only if they're really, really stupid.
  - beaconstudios 9y ago
    then you're arguing for diversity of opinion or viewpoint, rather than gender or skin colour? Because that's the opposite of the approach google is taking here.
    - elevenfist 9y ago
      I'm arguing for diversity of gender, skin color, cultural or sub-cultural background and identity. Diversity of viewpoint should already be a given. In order to promote tolerance you have to shut down and remove the people who support intolerance. Firing this guy is clearly in line with that mission and improving productivity. We learn this in grade school, are you all foreigners or something? Or has American education really been gutted...
      - beaconstudios 9y ago
        well for one thing I'm British. I agree that it's fair game for companies to seek to remove people who are actively hostile to other employees but from what I've read about this memo (admittedly I haven't read the original itself) it seems like he wasn't saying "quick, fire all the female engineers!" but more like "Google's diversity initiative to get equal representation amongst male/female engineers is nonsensical because women are on average less likely to become engineers due to natural temperament differences in men/women". Maybe I haven't bought into the ideological argument but nothing there seems particularly contentious, nor does it seem like he's saying women shouldn't or can't be engineers.
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  > It doesn't mean it doesn't exist though, just that we won't get access to it. It may as well be an argument from authority - because that is what it is. One cannot hide behind "but the data show" and then refuse to show the data. That is not how science works and we shouldn't accept it for a second from anyone.
  - CompanionCuuube 9y ago
    This is also the same argument about the success of the TSA in stopping terrorist attacks. They've stopped them, but refuse to show you the data.
    - justinjlynn 9y ago
      Yes, but that's not really on topic for this discussion, is it?

He's most likely referencing his next two lines down, "As part of Google's mandatory diversity training, one is presented with Google's internal research claiming that unconscious bias is real and measurable, and that diversity hiring yields both better individual and group performance. Google has a line which they feel is backed by research..." so he can't post that data publicly as it is Google's private research. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist though, just that we won't get access to it.

elevenfist 9y ago
> "... that diversity hiring yields both better individual and group performance." This is a well-known, well-researched fact of organizational psychology. Are you guys really this stupid? Think about it from a problem-solving perspective, in terms of the solutions individuals and groups will come up with. Sexism, racism, and discrimination in general doesn't benefit anyone but the wealthiest few, and only if they're really, really stupid.
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  then you're arguing for diversity of opinion or viewpoint, rather than gender or skin colour? Because that's the opposite of the approach google is taking here.
  - elevenfist 9y ago
    I'm arguing for diversity of gender, skin color, cultural or sub-cultural background and identity. Diversity of viewpoint should already be a given. In order to promote tolerance you have to shut down and remove the people who support intolerance. Firing this guy is clearly in line with that mission and improving productivity. We learn this in grade school, are you all foreigners or something? Or has American education really been gutted...
    - beaconstudios 9y ago
      well for one thing I'm British. I agree that it's fair game for companies to seek to remove people who are actively hostile to other employees but from what I've read about this memo (admittedly I haven't read the original itself) it seems like he wasn't saying "quick, fire all the female engineers!" but more like "Google's diversity initiative to get equal representation amongst male/female engineers is nonsensical because women are on average less likely to become engineers due to natural temperament differences in men/women". Maybe I haven't bought into the ideological argument but nothing there seems particularly contentious, nor does it seem like he's saying women shouldn't or can't be engineers.
justinjlynn 9y ago
> It doesn't mean it doesn't exist though, just that we won't get access to it. It may as well be an argument from authority - because that is what it is. One cannot hide behind "but the data show" and then refuse to show the data. That is not how science works and we shouldn't accept it for a second from anyone.
- CompanionCuuube 9y ago
  This is also the same argument about the success of the TSA in stopping terrorist attacks. They've stopped them, but refuse to show you the data.
  - justinjlynn 9y ago
    Yes, but that's not really on topic for this discussion, is it?