9 ms·

(Korean)AirBnb: host wasn't intentional (though be attempted to rape his guests)

52 points by devdoomari 9y ago

devdoomari 9y ago
tldr: 1. Some months ago, a Korean woman was drug-raped by an airbnb host. 2. Airbnb did not block the host nor did it tell anyone about the host 3. The host tried to drug-rape his guests again 4. Japanese police found about 'white powder remains in the cup given by the host' 5. Airbnb's 1st reaction: he didn't intend to do it. 6. Airbnb's 2nd reaction: Japanese police said he's ok 7. Airbnb's 3rd reaction: We'll educate the host on the matters 8. Airbnb's 4th reaction: We'll do something about it (...but what?) I chose HN because I saw some Airbnb founders/employees hanging around, and I'd expect them to solve these kind of issues. Maybe the Korean / Japanese Airbnb customer service is not doing their job/etc...?
- stephenr 9y ago
  This is terrible for the users but hardly surprising. I know it's not a popular opinion but some of the laws setup around service industries like hotels, taxis, etc, are for the protection of the user from potentially dangerous providers. "Ripe for disruption" is just "lots of laws we can ignore"
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > "Ripe for disruption" is just "lots of laws we can ignore" On the whole, I think society probably benefits from this kind of edge testing. I certainly don't encourage it. And taking on federal or state laws is a different game (legal and moral liability-wise) from challenging municipal codes, particularly when people get hurt. But Uber challenging the taxi industry forced everyone to take out the rulebook and reconsider what is and isn't truly necessary. Something similar is happening with hotels. One could argue, with Bitcoin et al, too.
    - exelius 9y ago
      Honestly, Bitcoin is proving to the world why we need financial regulation.
      - TomMarius 9y ago
        Is it? The way I see it, it's the consequence of financial regulations, and proves nothing - you can't really compare traditional currencies spanning hundreds of years with one that was there for just a decade.
        majewsky 9y ago
        Of course I can. In fact, comparing new products with ones that have existed for decades is sort of the DNA of Hacker News.
        TomMarius 9y ago
        Well, yeah, of course you can, but the comparison is nonsense.
      - repomies6999 9y ago
        How so? What are the problems caused by btc?
    - stephenr 9y ago
      Uber spent more money campaigning to prevent a law requiring background checks on drivers in one city than it would have cost to do background checks for all their drivers in the entire country. These companies can try to claim it's about making things better all they want. It's clearly just about money to them. I learnt that the hard way trying to deal with AirBnB. Tip: companies "doing the right thing" don't charge your credit card then require you to login with Facebook (which I don't have) or upload a video explaining why I want to rent a house.
      - mcintyre1994 9y ago
  - devdoomari 9y ago
    I don't think Airbnb's management is intentionally ignoring the law -- rather, it's just that AirBnb got too big to look at its toes... should definitely work on improving internal communications, and penalizing those customer service ppl responsible.
  - darawk 9y ago
    How would the laws around hotels have helped in this situation?
- hannob 9y ago
  One question that immediately pops up in my mind: If he raped a guest - why didn't he get arrested? I don't know the backgrounds and can't judge what happened here, but it seems to me first and foremost rape is something that you'd expect normal law enforcement to handle and not rely on a company to react on it.
  - diN0bot 9y ago
    the question in my mind is HOLY FUCK RAPE IS FUCKING AWFUL. act now to prevent the possibility of it happening again. i'm sure folks here will say "but he's innocent until proven guilty. what about his airbnb income?" stop putting his concerns above the way more concerning impact of rape. stop putting his words above women's words. most women don't make shit up, just like most men don't kill women. airbnb should absolutely do more. as we all should. i hope she left a negative review.
    - darawk 9y ago
      Why is AirBnB responsible for this? Rape is a criminal matter. It should be handled by the police. It's the job of the police and criminal justice system to adjudicate matters like these, not private companies.
      - pliftkl 9y ago
        AirBnB didn't rape anyone, they just set up the platform that enabled the rape, and took a cut of the money the woman paid to rent a place in which she was raped. Imagine a taxi company that hired a driver, did background checks, who then is arrested for raping a woman in a taxi. The taxi driver makes bail. Does the taxi company at that point say "Rape is a criminal matter, and it's up to the criminal justice system to adjudicate matters like this, not us" and put him back in a taxi? If they did so, and he raped a second woman, would you argue that the taxi company had absolutely no responsibility, and that it's still the job of the criminal justice system? Really?
        belorn 9y ago
- std_throwaway 9y ago
  Why is Airbnb responsible for the action of criminals? Shall they ban each and everyone who gets accused of something without proof? Don't we have to police and justice system to sort such things out?
  - strictnein 9y ago
    Yes, why would they ever error on the side of caution with a host who has repeatedly been accused of rape? Are you for real?
rhapsodic 9y ago
Brian Chesky is a horrible person for foisting this on the world. Disruptive, indeed.
- rdl 9y ago
  While bad stuff happens with AirBnB, and I respect neighbors and HOAs not wanting them in some buildings, hotels have a lot of negatives, too.
- Powerofmene 9y ago
  We all have the right to our own opinion. I have never used Airbnb but certainly have lots of friends who have. Some love it and others not so much. I know people who would lose their home if it were not using Airbnb to rent out their guest room(s). One man's disaster is another's savior, I guess.
  - RodericDay 9y ago
    > I know people who would lose their home if it were not using Airbnb to rent out their guest room(s). I know people who are feeling increased pressure to participate in the Airbnb game, so as to not get priced-out by people who are doing so! It's a race to the bottom.
    - Powerofmene 9y ago
      I agree with that too. Communities are experiencing different ripple effects as a result of Airbnb, some are good and some are definitely not.
    - darawk 9y ago
      It's only a race to the bottom because of artificially constrained housing supply. Housing in cities would be substantially cheaper for everyone if it weren't for NIMBYism and zoning laws. It's not AirBnB's fault for giving people the ability to rent their homes.
- devdoomari 9y ago
visarga 9y ago
Does this site disable right-click? Can't translate normally.
- sookcha 9y ago
  yeah it's blocked. try full site translate https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ko&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insight.co.kr%2FnewsRead.php%3FArtNo%3D114861&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
- rubatuga 9y ago
  I'm sure it's because the page is also optimized for IE6
dmichulke 9y ago
Is there some cultural component in the (non-) reaction of the Asian Airbnb "branches" (maybe a rape=dishonor=never admit it) or is it just a plain PR-disaster avoidance scheme?
africasiaeuro 9y ago
Airbnb s strategy : Don't offend the owner; he is providing our income. In our own 10 years of experience we had several complaints raised with Airbnb : They always sited with the host. Never added an inspection of places they advertise, no vetting , nothing. Relying entirely on comments and reviews from customers - and hosts. The system provides them with good income, they collect from both sides 15 %. So why bother / africasiaeuro

52 points by devdoomari 9y ago

tldr: 1. Some months ago, a Korean woman was drug-raped by an airbnb host. 2. Airbnb did not block the host nor did it tell anyone about the host 3. The host tried to drug-rape his guests again 4. Japanese police found about 'white powder remains in the cup given by the host' 5. Airbnb's 1st reaction: he didn't intend to do it. 6. Airbnb's 2nd reaction: Japanese police said he's ok 7. Airbnb's 3rd reaction: We'll educate the host on the matters 8. Airbnb's 4th reaction: We'll do something about it (...but what?) I chose HN because I saw some Airbnb founders/employees hanging around, and I'd expect them to solve these kind of issues. Maybe the Korean / Japanese Airbnb customer service is not doing their job/etc...?

stephenr 9y ago
This is terrible for the users but hardly surprising. I know it's not a popular opinion but some of the laws setup around service industries like hotels, taxis, etc, are for the protection of the user from potentially dangerous providers. "Ripe for disruption" is just "lots of laws we can ignore"
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > "Ripe for disruption" is just "lots of laws we can ignore" On the whole, I think society probably benefits from this kind of edge testing. I certainly don't encourage it. And taking on federal or state laws is a different game (legal and moral liability-wise) from challenging municipal codes, particularly when people get hurt. But Uber challenging the taxi industry forced everyone to take out the rulebook and reconsider what is and isn't truly necessary. Something similar is happening with hotels. One could argue, with Bitcoin et al, too.
  - exelius 9y ago
    Honestly, Bitcoin is proving to the world why we need financial regulation.
    - TomMarius 9y ago
      Is it? The way I see it, it's the consequence of financial regulations, and proves nothing - you can't really compare traditional currencies spanning hundreds of years with one that was there for just a decade.
      - majewsky 9y ago
        Of course I can. In fact, comparing new products with ones that have existed for decades is sort of the DNA of Hacker News.
        TomMarius 9y ago
        Well, yeah, of course you can, but the comparison is nonsense.
    - repomies6999 9y ago
      How so? What are the problems caused by btc?
  - stephenr 9y ago
    Uber spent more money campaigning to prevent a law requiring background checks on drivers in one city than it would have cost to do background checks for all their drivers in the entire country. These companies can try to claim it's about making things better all they want. It's clearly just about money to them. I learnt that the hard way trying to deal with AirBnB. Tip: companies "doing the right thing" don't charge your credit card then require you to login with Facebook (which I don't have) or upload a video explaining why I want to rent a house.
    - mcintyre1994 9y ago
- devdoomari 9y ago
  I don't think Airbnb's management is intentionally ignoring the law -- rather, it's just that AirBnb got too big to look at its toes... should definitely work on improving internal communications, and penalizing those customer service ppl responsible.
- darawk 9y ago
  How would the laws around hotels have helped in this situation?
hannob 9y ago
One question that immediately pops up in my mind: If he raped a guest - why didn't he get arrested? I don't know the backgrounds and can't judge what happened here, but it seems to me first and foremost rape is something that you'd expect normal law enforcement to handle and not rely on a company to react on it.
- diN0bot 9y ago
  the question in my mind is HOLY FUCK RAPE IS FUCKING AWFUL. act now to prevent the possibility of it happening again. i'm sure folks here will say "but he's innocent until proven guilty. what about his airbnb income?" stop putting his concerns above the way more concerning impact of rape. stop putting his words above women's words. most women don't make shit up, just like most men don't kill women. airbnb should absolutely do more. as we all should. i hope she left a negative review.
  - darawk 9y ago
    Why is AirBnB responsible for this? Rape is a criminal matter. It should be handled by the police. It's the job of the police and criminal justice system to adjudicate matters like these, not private companies.
    - pliftkl 9y ago
      AirBnB didn't rape anyone, they just set up the platform that enabled the rape, and took a cut of the money the woman paid to rent a place in which she was raped. Imagine a taxi company that hired a driver, did background checks, who then is arrested for raping a woman in a taxi. The taxi driver makes bail. Does the taxi company at that point say "Rape is a criminal matter, and it's up to the criminal justice system to adjudicate matters like this, not us" and put him back in a taxi? If they did so, and he raped a second woman, would you argue that the taxi company had absolutely no responsibility, and that it's still the job of the criminal justice system? Really?
      - belorn 9y ago
std_throwaway 9y ago
Why is Airbnb responsible for the action of criminals? Shall they ban each and everyone who gets accused of something without proof? Don't we have to police and justice system to sort such things out?
- strictnein 9y ago
  Yes, why would they ever error on the side of caution with a host who has repeatedly been accused of rape? Are you for real?

rhapsodic 9y ago

Brian Chesky is a horrible person for foisting this on the world. Disruptive, indeed.

rdl 9y ago
While bad stuff happens with AirBnB, and I respect neighbors and HOAs not wanting them in some buildings, hotels have a lot of negatives, too.
Powerofmene 9y ago
We all have the right to our own opinion. I have never used Airbnb but certainly have lots of friends who have. Some love it and others not so much. I know people who would lose their home if it were not using Airbnb to rent out their guest room(s). One man's disaster is another's savior, I guess.
- RodericDay 9y ago
  > I know people who would lose their home if it were not using Airbnb to rent out their guest room(s). I know people who are feeling increased pressure to participate in the Airbnb game, so as to not get priced-out by people who are doing so! It's a race to the bottom.
  - Powerofmene 9y ago
    I agree with that too. Communities are experiencing different ripple effects as a result of Airbnb, some are good and some are definitely not.
  - darawk 9y ago
    It's only a race to the bottom because of artificially constrained housing supply. Housing in cities would be substantially cheaper for everyone if it weren't for NIMBYism and zoning laws. It's not AirBnB's fault for giving people the ability to rent their homes.
devdoomari 9y ago

visarga 9y ago

Does this site disable right-click? Can't translate normally.

sookcha 9y ago
yeah it's blocked. try full site translate https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ko&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insight.co.kr%2FnewsRead.php%3FArtNo%3D114861&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
rubatuga 9y ago
I'm sure it's because the page is also optimized for IE6

dmichulke 9y ago

Is there some cultural component in the (non-) reaction of the Asian Airbnb "branches" (maybe a rape=dishonor=never admit it) or is it just a plain PR-disaster avoidance scheme?

africasiaeuro 9y ago

Airbnb s strategy : Don't offend the owner; he is providing our income. In our own 10 years of experience we had several complaints raised with Airbnb : They always sited with the host. Never added an inspection of places they advertise, no vetting , nothing. Relying entirely on comments and reviews from customers - and hosts. The system provides them with good income, they collect from both sides 15 %. So why bother / africasiaeuro