8 ms·

As a Chinese, I need to clarify some facts. I think that the Communist Party of China made a really big mistake, which caused a serious impact on China's natio

by zuolan 9y ago

As a Chinese, I need to clarify some facts. I think that the Communist Party of China made a really big mistake, which caused a serious impact on China's national image. But I also do not agree with Liu Xiaobo's political views. Finally, China's political environment indeed bad, but most of the Western media coverage distorted the facts, including the Liu Xiaobo event.

23lk4jj4j2 9y ago
As someone who visits China almost every year, and has spent quite a lot of time there including for study please consider what I'm going to say not as a criticism, but an attempt to help you understand how your words will likely be received. You haven't clarified any facts, you've just made two statements of opinion without any supporting evidence or greater explanation.
- colordrops 9y ago
  As someone who lived in china for 9 years, and married a Chinese woman, perhaps you could recognize that you might live in a very specific bubble in a culture very different from China, and that the perspective is so different that reaching out and trying to understand this person's world view might be more productive than tritely dismissing the comment on technicalities. I hate China's government and the way they operate but I also recognize that the world is very complex and cultures are ancient and have very different but also successful mechanisms of operation. On the same note I would not write off an American's perspective because the president is a wack job.
  - 23lk4jj4j2 9y ago
    I would write off someone posting about any country if their entire statement could be boiled down to "X is reporting it wrong" without any evidence or examples... It just so happens that this kind of statement is common in the Chinese people that I speak with. You can make a very good case that Western media is terrible in its China reporting, but a blunt statement like that isn't going to be received well in a community like HN that likes to think of itself as critical. As I said, I was trying to help them understand how their statement was likely to be received not "tritely dismissing the comment on technicalities." which is an interpretation entirely of your own that wasn't contained in my original post.
    - colordrops 9y ago
      Most posts on HN are statements or opinion not backed up by facts. Occasionally an academic type will provide footnotes to their post but it's not the norm. Typically if someone's post is not received well, people respond by asking for references or a challenge to back up their statement. You take a comment that is not really qualitatively different from any other post on HN and give it special status because it's posted by a Chinese national.
      - pavlov 9y ago
        The original comment contributed nothing of substance: "China's political environment is indeed bad, but most of the Western media coverage distorted the facts" You're the one asking others to give this empty argument special status because it was posted by someone who claims to be Chinese.
        colordrops 9y ago
        How is that insubstantial? Many do not realize that the west is also a purveyor of lots of propaganda and perhaps they should challenge what they hear from the western media about controversial China topics. That is a very valid point.
        23lk4jj4j2 9y ago
        It would be substantial (that is, having substance) if the grandfather post perhaps included an example of how the western media screws up its China coverage. I have no doubt there are a lot to choose from. "Oh the coverage is all wrong" is a pretty empty statement by itself.
        colordrops 9y ago
        So ask for an example to back it up rather than write the person off. Like I said, most posts here on HN are not backed up by references until they are asked for.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    As someone who also lived in China for 9 years and married a Chinese woman...well...really that doesn't make me an expert on anything. But grandparent's post genuinely just presented two opinions without elaboration. It could have come from a westerner and it would downvoted, because it just isn't a high quality comment (though definitely not an offensive one either).
stenl 9y ago
It's fine to disagree with his political views. That's precisely his point: the freedom to disagree is the foundation of a free society. What facts were distorted? That he was jailed, multiple times, for defending freedom of expression? That he died in custody? That his wife Liu Xia was under house arrest for years without charges? Or was it his role during the Tiananmen protests and subsequent massacre? That he negotiated the free passage of students from Tiananmen, saving many from the advancing tanks?
- dis-sys 9y ago
  There are certain views that should never ever be publicly stated, e.g. Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/15/nobel-winner-liu-xiaobo-chinese-dissident https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/15/nobel-...
  - redial 9y ago
    > There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated Who gets to decide what is or is not allowed to be spoken? > Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me. Even if it is repressive, preventing him to say it by arresting him and his family is not repressive to you?
    - ideal0227 9y ago
      > Even if it is repressive, preventing him to say it by arresting him and his family is not repressive to you? Are you sure he was arrest because of saying that? Do you have any facts to support your view? > Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me. Do you think Liu deserves Nobel Peace Prize after saying that publicly? Remember that the argument was "There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated".
      - 9y ago
tsukaisute 9y ago
。
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Sorreah 9y ago
  This user was downvoted for his views which are the rough equivalent of "she was asking for it". To see this as people simply being closed-minded to different cultures is really myopic. I personally refuse to hold people to different moral standards because they come from another country.
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  I’d argue that they are not being disagreed with because of what is “socially acceptable”, but because their comment added no additional facts or information, and was instead just a couple of opinions without much to inform them.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

by zuolan 9y ago

23lk4jj4j2 9y ago

As someone who visits China almost every year, and has spent quite a lot of time there including for study please consider what I'm going to say not as a criticism, but an attempt to help you understand how your words will likely be received. You haven't clarified any facts, you've just made two statements of opinion without any supporting evidence or greater explanation.

colordrops 9y ago
As someone who lived in china for 9 years, and married a Chinese woman, perhaps you could recognize that you might live in a very specific bubble in a culture very different from China, and that the perspective is so different that reaching out and trying to understand this person's world view might be more productive than tritely dismissing the comment on technicalities. I hate China's government and the way they operate but I also recognize that the world is very complex and cultures are ancient and have very different but also successful mechanisms of operation. On the same note I would not write off an American's perspective because the president is a wack job.
- 23lk4jj4j2 9y ago
  I would write off someone posting about any country if their entire statement could be boiled down to "X is reporting it wrong" without any evidence or examples... It just so happens that this kind of statement is common in the Chinese people that I speak with. You can make a very good case that Western media is terrible in its China reporting, but a blunt statement like that isn't going to be received well in a community like HN that likes to think of itself as critical. As I said, I was trying to help them understand how their statement was likely to be received not "tritely dismissing the comment on technicalities." which is an interpretation entirely of your own that wasn't contained in my original post.
  - colordrops 9y ago
    Most posts on HN are statements or opinion not backed up by facts. Occasionally an academic type will provide footnotes to their post but it's not the norm. Typically if someone's post is not received well, people respond by asking for references or a challenge to back up their statement. You take a comment that is not really qualitatively different from any other post on HN and give it special status because it's posted by a Chinese national.
    - pavlov 9y ago
      The original comment contributed nothing of substance: "China's political environment is indeed bad, but most of the Western media coverage distorted the facts" You're the one asking others to give this empty argument special status because it was posted by someone who claims to be Chinese.
      - colordrops 9y ago
        How is that insubstantial? Many do not realize that the west is also a purveyor of lots of propaganda and perhaps they should challenge what they hear from the western media about controversial China topics. That is a very valid point.
        23lk4jj4j2 9y ago
        It would be substantial (that is, having substance) if the grandfather post perhaps included an example of how the western media screws up its China coverage. I have no doubt there are a lot to choose from. "Oh the coverage is all wrong" is a pretty empty statement by itself.
        colordrops 9y ago
        So ask for an example to back it up rather than write the person off. Like I said, most posts here on HN are not backed up by references until they are asked for.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  As someone who also lived in China for 9 years and married a Chinese woman...well...really that doesn't make me an expert on anything. But grandparent's post genuinely just presented two opinions without elaboration. It could have come from a westerner and it would downvoted, because it just isn't a high quality comment (though definitely not an offensive one either).

stenl 9y ago

It's fine to disagree with his political views. That's precisely his point: the freedom to disagree is the foundation of a free society. What facts were distorted? That he was jailed, multiple times, for defending freedom of expression? That he died in custody? That his wife Liu Xia was under house arrest for years without charges? Or was it his role during the Tiananmen protests and subsequent massacre? That he negotiated the free passage of students from Tiananmen, saving many from the advancing tanks?

dis-sys 9y ago
There are certain views that should never ever be publicly stated, e.g. Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/15/nobel-winner-liu-xiaobo-chinese-dissident https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/15/nobel-...
- redial 9y ago
  > There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated Who gets to decide what is or is not allowed to be spoken? > Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me. Even if it is repressive, preventing him to say it by arresting him and his family is not repressive to you?
  - ideal0227 9y ago
    > Even if it is repressive, preventing him to say it by arresting him and his family is not repressive to you? Are you sure he was arrest because of saying that? Do you have any facts to support your view? > Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me. Do you think Liu deserves Nobel Peace Prize after saying that publicly? Remember that the argument was "There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated".
    - 9y ago

tsukaisute 9y ago

。

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Sorreah 9y ago
This user was downvoted for his views which are the rough equivalent of "she was asking for it". To see this as people simply being closed-minded to different cultures is really myopic. I personally refuse to hold people to different moral standards because they come from another country.
matthewmacleod 9y ago
I’d argue that they are not being disagreed with because of what is “socially acceptable”, but because their comment added no additional facts or information, and was instead just a couple of opinions without much to inform them.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]