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I achieved some level of happiness when I managed to go up the earnings ladder (move frequently, move fast) and stop behaving if it was my own business. It is s

I achieved some level of happiness when I managed to go up the earnings ladder (move frequently, move fast) and stop behaving if it was my own business. It is someone else's business, and I am there to do what they ask me. Which may or may not match to what they need, but that's not for me to decide. When things go wrong, you either move on or start fixing things, and that perpetuates your job (hopefully). If things take more time, it is their time. I come in at 8am, leave at 4pm. I don't take my laptop home. I don't work from home. I see their inefficiencies as opportunities for me to spend time on things like learning and experimenting. But that's me. I get paid enough, I don't need or want to go up the "career ladder". Others may have loftier goals.

Clubber 9y ago
Do you do scrum where you work?
- ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
  "They" like to say yes, that we scrum. Practically I have a manager that calls biweekly meetings and hands out work to be done in one or two weeks. Which usually is more than enough, but I manage to get everything done "on time".
  - enraged_camel 9y ago
    I think "scrum" refers to daily standups. I may be wrong though.
    - ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
      It probably is. I might never know. People use the words "agile" and "scrum" very liberally at least around here.
    - zaphod12 9y ago
      Scrum is a process with way more than just daily stand ups. Obviously a company can do whatever works for them, but formal 'scrum' involves time-delineated sprints, planning meetings, demos, retrospectives, the daily stand ups, pointing stories and a handful of other aspects. http://www.scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html http://www.scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html NB: I'm not trying to advocate for it - it works for some teams, but everyone is different.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Every two weeks sounds great. At my last company "they" decided to do scrum. We had stand-ups daily (with 2 developers) and it was horrible micromanagement. They send out our burndown chart every day and if we were behind, the "scrum master" would constantly ask why and if we would make it on time. We had to do estimates and story refinement for hours. It was a huge mess. I quit and will never work for a company that is like that again.
anonseeker 9y ago
How do interview when this is your mindset? I ask this sincerely because this is the mindset that I've noticed has made me the happiest and I'm currently looking for a new place that will pay me more. I've been happier when earning more and working less. I don't really care about what I do while at work or whether I'm using a hot technology or what the company does. This doesn't mean I care about what I'm doing. I do care and put effort in during the work day and I've always had high praise from managers. Unfortunately, in order to distinguish themselves, pretty much every company wants to market themselves as such a great place to work and of course they ask the question "Why do you want to work here?" when for me the honest answer would be "I would want to work there if you pay the most and I can stick to a max office time of 8 hours per day." But I play along and say generic things about the product and people and show interest. I find meaning in my life outside of work and more money helps me achieve my outside goals which makes me happy.
- ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
  Oh you learn that "you just don't say things like that". Interviewing is a lot like sales, where you are the product. So it stands to reason that the "truth" is a movable entity. You build the truth your "client" is looking for, you enhance what would be pluses for them, and keep your real reasons for yourself. After all, they are your reasons and no one else's. As you mention, I do care and put effort. I don't have things coming back to haunt me. I have quite a bit of experience. And I do things fast if I need to. I just don't do them fast just for the sake of it, so I try to be seen as "meeting the targets" as well as "meeting expectations". Because if you are exceeding expectations you are really being underpaid. Well that's my view and my opinion after quite a bit of decades.
  - le-mark 9y ago
    > I have quite a bit of experience. And I do things fast if I need to. I just don't do them fast just for the sake of it, so I try to be seen as "meeting the targets" as well as "meeting expectations". Also meet targets your boss cares about. Don't be a miracle worker, you have to manage expectations. In large organizations I can always point to other teams shortcomings, or organizational inefficiencies as reasons for slow progress and delays.
dominotw 9y ago
>It is someone else's business, and I am there to do what they ask me. Which may or may not match to what they need, but that's not for me to decide. I know that this is the right idea, but it is so painful to build something you know is stupid and waste of time. Its impposible to go home happy knowing what you are building is crap.
- iamacynic 9y ago
  choose better people to work for. you are not a helpless victim.
  - thesagan 9y ago
    Not a helpful comment. Some people have more leverage than others.
  - quantumhobbit 9y ago
    It is also really hard to tell before hand. Companies change over time and can be very good at hiding their red flags.
    - theparanoid 9y ago
      It's easy to ignore red flags. We're rationalization engines.
- ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
  I look it this way: if I were good/smart/eager enough to decide if something is stupid or a waste of time, I may think about becoming the entrepreneur myself. I am not that person. I am a tool. Someone is paying me to develop something that it is important at least to them. I am a professional, I get things done for other people.
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    "I am a professional, I get things done for other people." I agree, but only if people want to pay "professionally" for it. Additionally, there can be problems with this if you're working someplace where your job is potentially at risk if the project fails. It's very hard to take strategic direction from folks who have golden parachutes in their contracts. Succeed or fail, they'll be OK, but when you can see the project is DOA, you now have to spend some time preparing to look for the next job/engagement/etc. I realize not all situations are like this, but have seen enough to understand it happens. You can be professional, but also have to understand that sometimes your best interests and the project's best interests may not line up, and plan accordingly.
liveoneggs 9y ago
I agree with this fully. I was taught this lesson very specifically after being laid off and doing a stint as an hourly consultant. I've found being senior enough to actually be (slightly) respected is nice in that you can spend time cleaning if you know how to sell it (I just reduced X, which translates to $$$), making your day-to-day easier.
suls 9y ago
Great inisght. I've recently been wondering how I can rebase my values to achieve the same behaviour. You seem like you had a different mindset before -- how were you able to rewire yourself? Also, just curious: > [..] but that's not for me to decide [..] When things go wrong, you either move on or start fixing things [..] Start fixing things is your own decision or do you wait until someone asks you?
- ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
  I do my best to have someone tell me to fix them. Not because I lack initiative, but because I saw too many times well- intentioned developers get in a lot of trouble by "taking the initiative" to make things better, to fix things. To the point where one place I worked the word "refactor" was spoken with a high degree of suspicion.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Part of the problem is that well-intentioned developers don't always get it right. The assumption in these discussions seems to be that every time developer starts refactoring, the system is bound to end up better then before. The reality is, that the refactoring attempt may end up as bad or even worst then before - it may end up over-engineered, under-engineered or simply buggy, slower or loosing features people actually liked. Unfinished refactoring basically forces everyone to deal with two different architectures at once which causes quite a lot of problems. I think that these kinds of experience are behind the word "refactor" being suspicious at some places. The other issue is that "I am taking initiative" is sometimes euphemism for "I am going to do things my way and don't care to argue with other team members/departments who I expect to obey me anyway by default" power grab which leads to people rejecting changes even as they are right.
suls 9y ago
Great inisght. I've recently been wondering how I can rebase my values to achieve the same behaviour. You seem like you had a different mindset before -- how were you able to rewire yourself? Also, just curious: > [..] but that's not for me to decide [..] When things go wrong, you either move on or start fixing things [..] Start fixing things is your own decision or do you wait until someone asks you?
nucleardog 9y ago
> I come in at 8am, leave at 4pm. This is important, and this is why I'm still unable to let go and treat work as "I'm a tool. I just do what I'm told." I, like many people in IT, am effectively "end of the line" for our deliverables. The consequence of inefficiencies isn't "the business makes less money", it's "work bleeds into your personal time". If things take more time, it's my time. And that makes these issues my problem as well.
unabst 9y ago
Exactly. A job is just a job, and a business is just a business. Mistaking either for anything more will lead to a paradox. Businesses just need extremely specific work to get done. Jobs are ways to get people to do that work in exchange for money. If you're flipping burgers at McDonald's, you don't reinvent their burger. If you're assembling iPhones at Foxconn, you never add your personal touch. You do what is expected of you, and if you'd rather be doing something else, you need to find a job that matches. And that's it. And most importantly, if you got paid, you're being appreciated. If you need someone to pat you on the back, know that the business is paying someone to pat you on the back because you are deemed to work better that way, and it's called overhead. It's why you're being paid less than someone who doesn't need pats on the back (probably the guy patting you on the back). Same with dangling carrots. Unfortunately, there is so much more to being human. So it truly is up to each individual person to fill in their voids. A true professional is defined by someone who is capable of remaining satisfied while accomplishing demanding work.
cosinetau 9y ago
Yeah, this is what I call the "Marine Model." You and I work like grunts; kick doors in; blow shit up. However I feel that my experience has indicated that this only works when the brass are present and making such orders. When you're on your own, even when within the context of a organization or team, this is more easily prone to failure. You talk about them being loftier goals, but maybe they're just different methods to solve different problems. Anyway, semper fi.

Clubber 9y ago

Do you do scrum where you work?

ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
"They" like to say yes, that we scrum. Practically I have a manager that calls biweekly meetings and hands out work to be done in one or two weeks. Which usually is more than enough, but I manage to get everything done "on time".
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  I think "scrum" refers to daily standups. I may be wrong though.
  - ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
    It probably is. I might never know. People use the words "agile" and "scrum" very liberally at least around here.
  - zaphod12 9y ago
    Scrum is a process with way more than just daily stand ups. Obviously a company can do whatever works for them, but formal 'scrum' involves time-delineated sprints, planning meetings, demos, retrospectives, the daily stand ups, pointing stories and a handful of other aspects. http://www.scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html http://www.scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html NB: I'm not trying to advocate for it - it works for some teams, but everyone is different.
- Clubber 9y ago
  Every two weeks sounds great. At my last company "they" decided to do scrum. We had stand-ups daily (with 2 developers) and it was horrible micromanagement. They send out our burndown chart every day and if we were behind, the "scrum master" would constantly ask why and if we would make it on time. We had to do estimates and story refinement for hours. It was a huge mess. I quit and will never work for a company that is like that again.

anonseeker 9y ago

How do interview when this is your mindset? I ask this sincerely because this is the mindset that I've noticed has made me the happiest and I'm currently looking for a new place that will pay me more. I've been happier when earning more and working less. I don't really care about what I do while at work or whether I'm using a hot technology or what the company does. This doesn't mean I care about what I'm doing. I do care and put effort in during the work day and I've always had high praise from managers. Unfortunately, in order to distinguish themselves, pretty much every company wants to market themselves as such a great place to work and of course they ask the question "Why do you want to work here?" when for me the honest answer would be "I would want to work there if you pay the most and I can stick to a max office time of 8 hours per day." But I play along and say generic things about the product and people and show interest. I find meaning in my life outside of work and more money helps me achieve my outside goals which makes me happy.

ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
Oh you learn that "you just don't say things like that". Interviewing is a lot like sales, where you are the product. So it stands to reason that the "truth" is a movable entity. You build the truth your "client" is looking for, you enhance what would be pluses for them, and keep your real reasons for yourself. After all, they are your reasons and no one else's. As you mention, I do care and put effort. I don't have things coming back to haunt me. I have quite a bit of experience. And I do things fast if I need to. I just don't do them fast just for the sake of it, so I try to be seen as "meeting the targets" as well as "meeting expectations". Because if you are exceeding expectations you are really being underpaid. Well that's my view and my opinion after quite a bit of decades.
- le-mark 9y ago
  > I have quite a bit of experience. And I do things fast if I need to. I just don't do them fast just for the sake of it, so I try to be seen as "meeting the targets" as well as "meeting expectations". Also meet targets your boss cares about. Don't be a miracle worker, you have to manage expectations. In large organizations I can always point to other teams shortcomings, or organizational inefficiencies as reasons for slow progress and delays.

dominotw 9y ago

>It is someone else's business, and I am there to do what they ask me. Which may or may not match to what they need, but that's not for me to decide. I know that this is the right idea, but it is so painful to build something you know is stupid and waste of time. Its impposible to go home happy knowing what you are building is crap.

iamacynic 9y ago
choose better people to work for. you are not a helpless victim.
- thesagan 9y ago
  Not a helpful comment. Some people have more leverage than others.
- quantumhobbit 9y ago
  It is also really hard to tell before hand. Companies change over time and can be very good at hiding their red flags.
  - theparanoid 9y ago
    It's easy to ignore red flags. We're rationalization engines.
ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
I look it this way: if I were good/smart/eager enough to decide if something is stupid or a waste of time, I may think about becoming the entrepreneur myself. I am not that person. I am a tool. Someone is paying me to develop something that it is important at least to them. I am a professional, I get things done for other people.
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  "I am a professional, I get things done for other people." I agree, but only if people want to pay "professionally" for it. Additionally, there can be problems with this if you're working someplace where your job is potentially at risk if the project fails. It's very hard to take strategic direction from folks who have golden parachutes in their contracts. Succeed or fail, they'll be OK, but when you can see the project is DOA, you now have to spend some time preparing to look for the next job/engagement/etc. I realize not all situations are like this, but have seen enough to understand it happens. You can be professional, but also have to understand that sometimes your best interests and the project's best interests may not line up, and plan accordingly.

liveoneggs 9y ago

I agree with this fully. I was taught this lesson very specifically after being laid off and doing a stint as an hourly consultant. I've found being senior enough to actually be (slightly) respected is nice in that you can spend time cleaning if you know how to sell it (I just reduced X, which translates to $$$), making your day-to-day easier.

suls 9y ago

Great inisght. I've recently been wondering how I can rebase my values to achieve the same behaviour. You seem like you had a different mindset before -- how were you able to rewire yourself? Also, just curious: > [..] but that's not for me to decide [..] When things go wrong, you either move on or start fixing things [..] Start fixing things is your own decision or do you wait until someone asks you?

ThomaszKrueger 9y ago
I do my best to have someone tell me to fix them. Not because I lack initiative, but because I saw too many times well- intentioned developers get in a lot of trouble by "taking the initiative" to make things better, to fix things. To the point where one place I worked the word "refactor" was spoken with a high degree of suspicion.
- watwut 9y ago
  Part of the problem is that well-intentioned developers don't always get it right. The assumption in these discussions seems to be that every time developer starts refactoring, the system is bound to end up better then before. The reality is, that the refactoring attempt may end up as bad or even worst then before - it may end up over-engineered, under-engineered or simply buggy, slower or loosing features people actually liked. Unfinished refactoring basically forces everyone to deal with two different architectures at once which causes quite a lot of problems. I think that these kinds of experience are behind the word "refactor" being suspicious at some places. The other issue is that "I am taking initiative" is sometimes euphemism for "I am going to do things my way and don't care to argue with other team members/departments who I expect to obey me anyway by default" power grab which leads to people rejecting changes even as they are right.

suls 9y ago

nucleardog 9y ago

> I come in at 8am, leave at 4pm. This is important, and this is why I'm still unable to let go and treat work as "I'm a tool. I just do what I'm told." I, like many people in IT, am effectively "end of the line" for our deliverables. The consequence of inefficiencies isn't "the business makes less money", it's "work bleeds into your personal time". If things take more time, it's my time. And that makes these issues my problem as well.

unabst 9y ago

Exactly. A job is just a job, and a business is just a business. Mistaking either for anything more will lead to a paradox. Businesses just need extremely specific work to get done. Jobs are ways to get people to do that work in exchange for money. If you're flipping burgers at McDonald's, you don't reinvent their burger. If you're assembling iPhones at Foxconn, you never add your personal touch. You do what is expected of you, and if you'd rather be doing something else, you need to find a job that matches. And that's it. And most importantly, if you got paid, you're being appreciated. If you need someone to pat you on the back, know that the business is paying someone to pat you on the back because you are deemed to work better that way, and it's called overhead. It's why you're being paid less than someone who doesn't need pats on the back (probably the guy patting you on the back). Same with dangling carrots. Unfortunately, there is so much more to being human. So it truly is up to each individual person to fill in their voids. A true professional is defined by someone who is capable of remaining satisfied while accomplishing demanding work.

cosinetau 9y ago

Yeah, this is what I call the "Marine Model." You and I work like grunts; kick doors in; blow shit up. However I feel that my experience has indicated that this only works when the brass are present and making such orders. When you're on your own, even when within the context of a organization or team, this is more easily prone to failure. You talk about them being loftier goals, but maybe they're just different methods to solve different problems. Anyway, semper fi.