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The rate for margin is yearly 8% for my brokerage account. The NASDAQ has gone up 15% since Trump got elected. If you use it wisely, it is great leverage. The p

The rate for margin is yearly 8% for my brokerage account. The NASDAQ has gone up 15% since Trump got elected. If you use it wisely, it is great leverage. The poor don't even get to use it. They are completely shut out of the opportunity.

xapata 9y ago
How much leverage do you think a poor person should take for speculating in the stock market? 15% annual return on nothing is still nothing. For most poor, doubling salary would have dramatically more impact than doubling their savings account.
- nullnilvoid 9y ago
  > 15% annual return on nothing is still nothing. This says how disconnected you are from the reality. Many Americans don't even make $100 a day. $10,000 investment plus $10,000 margin multiplied by 15% is significant for many people to buy food and pay rent.
  - xapata 9y ago
    Oh boy. Your criticism is that I overestimate wages and your counter-example is a $10,000 investment? "Nearly half of Americans would have trouble finding $400 to pay for an emergency" (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secr...). How are these sub-$100 per day folks going to scrape together $10,000 for investing?
    - nullnilvoid 9y ago
      Anywhere below $25,000 does not get the opportunity to use the margin. $10,000 is still far from hoop. $100 per day will get you $2,500 per month conservatively. For a few months of tight pants, you will be able to save enough for $10,00-. You are missing the point here. It is about the principle. Everybody is created equal and should get equal opportunities (at least in terms of law).
      - xapata 9y ago
        I agree with the principle of equal opportunity, but I disagree with the implementation. Providing the "opportunity" to buy stocks on margin to people with less than $25k in their accounts is more like selling cigarettes than selling education. Just today I noticed a sign posted in the window of my corner store, "Customers of [convenience] store won $1,490,823 from [state] lottery in 2016!" I wish it were required to post the total paid as well. It'd be much better for the public if the sign read, "People in your neighborhood paid $3 million to the state lottery and only won $1 million back." Similarly, if the brokerage is going to offer margin accounts, they should post easy to understand statistics on how much customers earn and spend. A nice histogram showing returns with sliders to select a bucket for initial amounts invested and proportion bought on margin. Enforcing free information access is another way that governments can help provide equal opportunity.

xapata 9y ago

How much leverage do you think a poor person should take for speculating in the stock market? 15% annual return on nothing is still nothing. For most poor, doubling salary would have dramatically more impact than doubling their savings account.

nullnilvoid 9y ago
> 15% annual return on nothing is still nothing. This says how disconnected you are from the reality. Many Americans don't even make $100 a day. $10,000 investment plus $10,000 margin multiplied by 15% is significant for many people to buy food and pay rent.
- xapata 9y ago
  Oh boy. Your criticism is that I overestimate wages and your counter-example is a $10,000 investment? "Nearly half of Americans would have trouble finding $400 to pay for an emergency" (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secr...). How are these sub-$100 per day folks going to scrape together $10,000 for investing?
  - nullnilvoid 9y ago
    Anywhere below $25,000 does not get the opportunity to use the margin. $10,000 is still far from hoop. $100 per day will get you $2,500 per month conservatively. For a few months of tight pants, you will be able to save enough for $10,00-. You are missing the point here. It is about the principle. Everybody is created equal and should get equal opportunities (at least in terms of law).
    - xapata 9y ago
      I agree with the principle of equal opportunity, but I disagree with the implementation. Providing the "opportunity" to buy stocks on margin to people with less than $25k in their accounts is more like selling cigarettes than selling education. Just today I noticed a sign posted in the window of my corner store, "Customers of [convenience] store won $1,490,823 from [state] lottery in 2016!" I wish it were required to post the total paid as well. It'd be much better for the public if the sign read, "People in your neighborhood paid $3 million to the state lottery and only won $1 million back." Similarly, if the brokerage is going to offer margin accounts, they should post easy to understand statistics on how much customers earn and spend. A nice histogram showing returns with sliders to select a bucket for initial amounts invested and proportion bought on margin. Enforcing free information access is another way that governments can help provide equal opportunity.