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As a matter of fact, this is what Sir Berners Lee is working on right now at MIT. https://solid.mit.edu/ https://solid.mit.edu/ The issue is not storing the d

As a matter of fact, this is what Sir Berners Lee is working on right now at MIT. https://solid.mit.edu/ https://solid.mit.edu/ The issue is not storing the data, just like "email" doesn't store data. It's just a protocol and a data format. This makes it interoperable across whichever industry player wants to spring up and compete for your service. Ex: Don't like gmail? Go to ProtonMail. And you don't lose the ability to interact with people who do use Gmail. Don't like Facebook? Go to Ello. But now you've lost your entire network. The decentralized web will be built on data formats and protocols that allow you to take your data with you and force companies to compete with the quality of their service, not the size of their network.

qplex 9y ago
So does one export their existing network information to these open formats? I don't think the companies who currently hold that information will part with it willingly.
- jasonkostempski 9y ago
  If it catches on, I assume a bunch of services will pop up offering to export you data. All they'll need is your password.
  - qplex 9y ago
    But how would you verify that YourFacebookFriend is YourFacebookFriend on some other service?
    - Nadya 9y ago
      This is a solved problem, but not one that would catch on. See: PGP If my friend can sign a message using the same key on both services - and I already trust that key is them - I can be almost certain it is them. Regardless of the service. This is one of the first use cases for keybase.io - verifying identities across a few main social sites. (E: For clarification, Keybase makes it easier to find these proofs. It isn't necessary as part of the proofs.) For example, you can find me on Reddit or Twitter and know it is me. You can also see my website URL and know that I own it - and a bitcoin address where you know I will receive the money. This is because I've verified that I own these accounts using PGP - and I've done the same for HN in my user profile. See: https://keybase.io/nadya https://keybase.io/nadya
      - hueving 9y ago
        >This is a solved problem, but not one that would catch on. See: PGP It's only 'solved' if you don't care about usability. PGP quickly becomes a nightmare when you consider the day-to-day things 'normal' computer users will go through (private key stolen, password to private key forgotten, phishing attacks to sign replacement keys for friends, etc).
- softawre 9y ago
  They already do allow you to export your data, right?
  - qplex 9y ago
    Yes, some of it, but not your actual network information (friends, contacts), at least not in a way that is meaningful outside of those services.
stan_rogers 9y ago
That's Sir Tim(othy). The "Sir" attaches to the given name, not the surname.
- nojvek 9y ago
  I've never quite figured out how sirs work. I know Knights were addressed with sirs and the Queen had something to do with it, but how does it work in a multicultural UK?
  - cjbprime 9y ago
    Not sure I'm following you -- yes, the Queen knighted him. How does the multicultural part come in? (Women receive the same award but it's called a Damehood and their prefix is Dame.)
    - nindalf 9y ago
      If Kazuo Ishiguro is knighted, should he be addressed as Sir Kazuo or Sir Ishiguro? The point being that people of Japanese descent might place their first names after their last names.
      - philipov 9y ago
        That's a language issue, not a culture issue. Normally, one uses the name ordering appropriate to the language one is speaking at the moment. Therefore, the question is equivalent to "What is the Japanese translation of 'Sir'"
      - cjbprime 9y ago
        This question doesn't seem very relevant to knighthoods. Whatever would be appropriate to call someone as their given name, rather than family name, would go after "Sir". It's not very complicated.
      - Nadya 9y ago
        Sir Kazuo. With some exceptions - Japanese people "normalize" their names to English name order of Given Name, Family Name when writing or speaking in English. Some choose not to, usually out of national pride, but it is most common to normalize the name to the target language. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name#Japanese_names_in_English_and_other_Western_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name#Japanese_names_i...
epmaybe 9y ago
Sort of off topic, but this is exactly what I want in electronic medical records. Being able to take my data and give it to whichever healthcare provider I go to.
freehunter 9y ago
But half the point of a social network isn't the ability to communicate, but rather the history you've built there. Likewise, half the value of email isn't the ability to send a message to anyone, but the history of emails you have. Sure email isn't a data storage method, but in reality? Yeah, email is a data storage method. That's why Gmail gives me 25GB for free. Not because that's the size of my inbox, but because that's the size of every email I've ever gotten. If I move from Gmail to Outlook, I can still email my friends but I can't go back and search our old conversations unless I export everything from Gmail to Outlook. If I switch from Facebook to Instagram, I can still message my friends but I can't see all of the pictures I posted on Facebook unless I export the pictures from Facebook to Instagram, but even then there are a lot of features of Facebook that I can't export data from because they just don't exist on Instagram. History creates lock-in, and history is really hard to move around.
- jrochkind1 9y ago
  I don't see what would make basic facebook history hard to move around. Facebook of course already offers a "Download a copy of your Facebook data" function. Future-facebook could import it, or the most fundamental/basic parts of it, probably -- the problem is not the data itself, but the connections in it to other users, it's not that valuable without it. I suspect there isn't much interest from users in things-trying-to-be-facebook of importing the data. I think it's the ability to communicate that's harder to move around, and why there's such facebook lockin. Your social network and ability to communicate with them in a public/group fashion.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - madamelic 9y ago
    >I suspect there isn't much interest from users in things-trying-to-be-facebook of importing the data. And the legalities of that. FB did a major legal smackdown on someone trying to do that.
    - 9y ago
yvsong 9y ago
The goal is solid, but I wonder how it might prevail. The flexibility to change at any time doesn't seem a priority for most people. Most people search for a satisfactory solution and stay with it until it's no longer bearable, or a competitor many times better appears. The same for most things in one's lifestyle.

qplex 9y ago

So does one export their existing network information to these open formats? I don't think the companies who currently hold that information will part with it willingly.

jasonkostempski 9y ago
If it catches on, I assume a bunch of services will pop up offering to export you data. All they'll need is your password.
- qplex 9y ago
  But how would you verify that YourFacebookFriend is YourFacebookFriend on some other service?
  - Nadya 9y ago
    This is a solved problem, but not one that would catch on. See: PGP If my friend can sign a message using the same key on both services - and I already trust that key is them - I can be almost certain it is them. Regardless of the service. This is one of the first use cases for keybase.io - verifying identities across a few main social sites. (E: For clarification, Keybase makes it easier to find these proofs. It isn't necessary as part of the proofs.) For example, you can find me on Reddit or Twitter and know it is me. You can also see my website URL and know that I own it - and a bitcoin address where you know I will receive the money. This is because I've verified that I own these accounts using PGP - and I've done the same for HN in my user profile. See: https://keybase.io/nadya https://keybase.io/nadya
    - hueving 9y ago
      >This is a solved problem, but not one that would catch on. See: PGP It's only 'solved' if you don't care about usability. PGP quickly becomes a nightmare when you consider the day-to-day things 'normal' computer users will go through (private key stolen, password to private key forgotten, phishing attacks to sign replacement keys for friends, etc).
softawre 9y ago
They already do allow you to export your data, right?
- qplex 9y ago
  Yes, some of it, but not your actual network information (friends, contacts), at least not in a way that is meaningful outside of those services.

stan_rogers 9y ago

That's Sir Tim(othy). The "Sir" attaches to the given name, not the surname.

nojvek 9y ago
I've never quite figured out how sirs work. I know Knights were addressed with sirs and the Queen had something to do with it, but how does it work in a multicultural UK?
- cjbprime 9y ago
  Not sure I'm following you -- yes, the Queen knighted him. How does the multicultural part come in? (Women receive the same award but it's called a Damehood and their prefix is Dame.)
  - nindalf 9y ago
    If Kazuo Ishiguro is knighted, should he be addressed as Sir Kazuo or Sir Ishiguro? The point being that people of Japanese descent might place their first names after their last names.
    - philipov 9y ago
      That's a language issue, not a culture issue. Normally, one uses the name ordering appropriate to the language one is speaking at the moment. Therefore, the question is equivalent to "What is the Japanese translation of 'Sir'"
    - cjbprime 9y ago
      This question doesn't seem very relevant to knighthoods. Whatever would be appropriate to call someone as their given name, rather than family name, would go after "Sir". It's not very complicated.
    - Nadya 9y ago
      Sir Kazuo. With some exceptions - Japanese people "normalize" their names to English name order of Given Name, Family Name when writing or speaking in English. Some choose not to, usually out of national pride, but it is most common to normalize the name to the target language. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name#Japanese_names_in_English_and_other_Western_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name#Japanese_names_i...

epmaybe 9y ago

Sort of off topic, but this is exactly what I want in electronic medical records. Being able to take my data and give it to whichever healthcare provider I go to.

freehunter 9y ago

But half the point of a social network isn't the ability to communicate, but rather the history you've built there. Likewise, half the value of email isn't the ability to send a message to anyone, but the history of emails you have. Sure email isn't a data storage method, but in reality? Yeah, email is a data storage method. That's why Gmail gives me 25GB for free. Not because that's the size of my inbox, but because that's the size of every email I've ever gotten. If I move from Gmail to Outlook, I can still email my friends but I can't go back and search our old conversations unless I export everything from Gmail to Outlook. If I switch from Facebook to Instagram, I can still message my friends but I can't see all of the pictures I posted on Facebook unless I export the pictures from Facebook to Instagram, but even then there are a lot of features of Facebook that I can't export data from because they just don't exist on Instagram. History creates lock-in, and history is really hard to move around.

jrochkind1 9y ago
I don't see what would make basic facebook history hard to move around. Facebook of course already offers a "Download a copy of your Facebook data" function. Future-facebook could import it, or the most fundamental/basic parts of it, probably -- the problem is not the data itself, but the connections in it to other users, it's not that valuable without it. I suspect there isn't much interest from users in things-trying-to-be-facebook of importing the data. I think it's the ability to communicate that's harder to move around, and why there's such facebook lockin. Your social network and ability to communicate with them in a public/group fashion.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- madamelic 9y ago
  >I suspect there isn't much interest from users in things-trying-to-be-facebook of importing the data. And the legalities of that. FB did a major legal smackdown on someone trying to do that.
  - 9y ago

yvsong 9y ago

The goal is solid, but I wonder how it might prevail. The flexibility to change at any time doesn't seem a priority for most people. Most people search for a satisfactory solution and stay with it until it's no longer bearable, or a competitor many times better appears. The same for most things in one's lifestyle.