7 ms·

Hi Kalle, I love my daily pour over, so I might not be your target market, but I'd definitely be interested in purchasing a few coffees without a subscription.

by ryduh 9y ago

Hi Kalle, I love my daily pour over, so I might not be your target market, but I'd definitely be interested in purchasing a few coffees without a subscription. Have you thought about offering that?

baldeagle 9y ago
I second this. I've been burnt too many times by burnt instant coffee to subscribe without a sample.
- freese 9y ago
  Happy to get you a one-time order - just email me
m_x_m 9y ago
I agree...Looks great but I would want to try a few before I subscribe.
33W 9y ago
Same here - I'd pay $20 for a 5 count sample without a subscription.
- rhaps0dy 9y ago
  What prevents you from subscribing and then unsubscribing just afterwards? (I don't know, maybe the webpage does, but there's no mention of minimum times anywhere and recurringcheckout has let me unsubscribe without problems in the past)
  - komali2 9y ago
    Nothing, but it's annoying, because it takes 2 transactions instead of 1.
  - paulcole 9y ago
    You have to call the New York Times to cancel your digital subscription. Why would I trust that some online coffee merchant I've never heard of isn't up to the same tricks? https://www.nytimes.com/content/help/account/purchases/subscriptions-and-purchases.html#digital-sub-cancellation-policy https://www.nytimes.com/content/help/account/purchases/subsc...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - ryanSrich 9y ago
      Just use a single vendor credit card. I do this all the time with Final (getfinal.com).
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        Cancelling your card != Cancelling the subscription. You could get collections sent after you for doing this, bad for credit.
    - rhaps0dy 9y ago
      >Why would I trust that some online coffee merchant I've never heard of isn't up to the same tricks? Because they use "recurringcheckout.com" as a payment processor, which lets you do this.
  - zloof 9y ago
    Nothing prevents you from doing this and you are totally welcome to do it! You can email our support email as well and we'll cancel it for you. We'd obviously prefer that you stay on with a subscription, but are just happy to have more people give us a try.
    - danielvinson 9y ago
      This is enough of a hassle that I will never make the purchase, despite being interested.
      - freese 9y ago
        Email me and I'll hook you up with a one time order!
        xuki 9y ago
        You don't get it, do you? He doesn't want to email anyone just to order coffee.
    - darkst4r 9y ago
      I would also not sign up for a subscription service that does not let me cancel without contacting customer service. It's a dark pattern that too many subscription services adopt. The only reason for this is to make it more difficult to cancel. I was about to visit your site and try it out (depending on price), then I read that comment. If your willing to make it hard for me to cancel to try and squeeze in an extra buck then what else are you willing to do. I feel like it's shady and makes me not trust your company.
      - zloof 9y ago
        We do have a cancel button as well! Sorry if I was unclear. The UX on our site isn't the greatest - we use a platform to handle subscriptions. However, you definitely DO NOT need to contact support to cancel. Some people just find it easier to hit reply and say 'cancel'. FYI, we also proactively notify customers 3-4 days before a subscription renews. We want to make it as obvious as possible and give you the option to make adjustments. Transparency is critical for it to work.
- lifeformed 9y ago
  Or even just a jar/tub instead of individual servings.
  - zloof 9y ago
    Looking into that. We haven't done it yet because we are worried the coffee will get stale. Individual servings ensure the coffee stays fresh - that's why we do it.
farorm 9y ago
Thats the first thing they teach you at YC, always be having that recurring revenue.
- giarc 9y ago
  They probably also teach you that any customer can turn into a recurring customer.
- abeyer 9y ago
  It's also one of the first things to turn off a new consumer thinking about taking a chance on an unknown brand. You're fighting the reputation of generations of scammers who promised "cancel any time" and either weasel-worded the small print or just outright ignored cancellation requests to charge as much as possible to recurring bills.
  - username223 9y ago
    Automatic recurring billing is a "dark pattern" from back before anyone made up that term. The only reason it makes more money than one-time purchase or an honest subscription (where customers have to explicitly pay to resubscribe every month or year) is that people will forget or get frustrated when it's time to cancel. Do you want to run that sort of business? "Fun" fact: I bought a used car, only to discover that it apparently has free XM radio. I would not be surprised if someone unsuspecting person's card is being charged for it every month.
    - freese 9y ago
      If I wanted to start a scammy business running on recurring subscription I wouldn't have gone into all the trouble of developing new instant coffee ;) Obviously, we want to build a product that we and our subscribers love and choose to keep subscribing. Right now we have a lot of them. The biggest thing with the subscription is clear CAC vs. LTV. With our current model this equation works and we can profitably acquire new customers. This allows us to grow, make the product better and bring the cost down.
CrackpotGonzo 9y ago
+1 would love to sample before kicking in for subscription
startupdiscuss 9y ago
Sometimes the market speaks REALLY clearly! (1) I, too, would love to try it out. This does mean that if it is not much better than my Keurig (wasteful) single use, I may not re-up. Would be interested to see. (2) Also, would be great if the trial packets were available someplace that already had my credit card (like Amazon). (3) Do you have half-cafs?
- giarc 9y ago
  Regarding your Keurig comment. I really hated the amount of plastic waste going into landfills so I bought one of those plastic reusable cups. I wasn't impressed with the output or the work needed. I recently found Presidents Choice (large Canadian brand) has K cups for $0.50 a piece. They are compostable and made of spent coffee beans and other plant based material. If you are in Canada, go to your nearest superstore to test it out.
  - mark-r 9y ago
    Costco carries San Francisco Bay coffee, which replaces the bottom 3/4 of the plastic K-cup with some kind of cloth filter. They claim it's less waste.
  - startupdiscuss 9y ago
    Thanks for the tip. I am not in a large city so if I can get it on Amazon in half-caf, I will definitely buy that.
- zloof 9y ago
  Co-founder here - love the idea of having trial packets some place that's easier to buy, like Amazon. Will think on that. We do want to make it a lot easier to try (see my comment above) - figuring out the best ways to do that.
  - danielvinson 9y ago
    Use the same model as Soylent... they have a very good system.
zloof 9y ago
Co-founder of Sudden here. This question comes up a lot. We have tried offering one-time purchases and it didn't work very well/ wasn't sustainable for us. 3 reasons we believe in a subscription model: 1) A big reason we started this company together was our shared belief in making customers feel good through hospitality. It's more than just the coffee itself. We want to build a better experience - if you are a Sudden subscriber, the experience should evolve over time, you'll learn more about coffee, try new things, have fun with it. To us, this wasn't about making something to have once a year on a road trip, but a way that we could connect with customers and create a larger community. A subscription is the best way for us to build a lasting experience at our current size. 2) For a lot of folks out there, it is super easy & convenient and they wouldn't have it any other way. They like that Sudden Coffee just arrives and they don't have to think about it. It's something they can add into their life. 3) Subscriptions mean we can offer the same product at a much cheaper price. We can spend a lot less time & money making ads or sending emails to remind you to buy again. This is the reality of what most CPG companies do - think about how often you see a toothpaste ad for a toothpaste you already own, even if you love it. We pass the savings directly on to customers. We ran the numbers, to offer the same coffee without a subscription, we'd have to charge $4-5/cup. To clarify 2 things: A) You definitely can still be in the target market for us. Our most popular subscription is 8/cups a month. This is meant to ADD-TO not REPLACE your existing coffee ritual. We find Sudden works best as your 'second-cup' of the day (at least as you try it out). We have plenty of customers who make a daily pour over and then use Sudden in the afternoon. B) We recognize that giving people a way to TRY before subscribing is a big gap in our service and we are actively experimenting with the best ways to do that. It may come in the form of referrals from other customers or special sales. We just brought on someone last week to think through the experience and were brainstorming about it this morning.
- mark-r 9y ago
  A subscription also doesn't allow for any fluctuation in demand. If you're having a bunch of people over and want to offer them great coffee, how do you do that without depriving yourself for the rest of the month?
  - 9y ago

by ryduh 9y ago

Hi Kalle, I love my daily pour over, so I might not be your target market, but I'd definitely be interested in purchasing a few coffees without a subscription. Have you thought about offering that?

baldeagle 9y ago

I second this. I've been burnt too many times by burnt instant coffee to subscribe without a sample.

freese 9y ago
Happy to get you a one-time order - just email me

m_x_m 9y ago

I agree...Looks great but I would want to try a few before I subscribe.

33W 9y ago

Same here - I'd pay $20 for a 5 count sample without a subscription.

rhaps0dy 9y ago
What prevents you from subscribing and then unsubscribing just afterwards? (I don't know, maybe the webpage does, but there's no mention of minimum times anywhere and recurringcheckout has let me unsubscribe without problems in the past)
- komali2 9y ago
  Nothing, but it's annoying, because it takes 2 transactions instead of 1.
- paulcole 9y ago
  You have to call the New York Times to cancel your digital subscription. Why would I trust that some online coffee merchant I've never heard of isn't up to the same tricks? https://www.nytimes.com/content/help/account/purchases/subscriptions-and-purchases.html#digital-sub-cancellation-policy https://www.nytimes.com/content/help/account/purchases/subsc...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryanSrich 9y ago
    Just use a single vendor credit card. I do this all the time with Final (getfinal.com).
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      Cancelling your card != Cancelling the subscription. You could get collections sent after you for doing this, bad for credit.
  - rhaps0dy 9y ago
    >Why would I trust that some online coffee merchant I've never heard of isn't up to the same tricks? Because they use "recurringcheckout.com" as a payment processor, which lets you do this.
- zloof 9y ago
  Nothing prevents you from doing this and you are totally welcome to do it! You can email our support email as well and we'll cancel it for you. We'd obviously prefer that you stay on with a subscription, but are just happy to have more people give us a try.
  - danielvinson 9y ago
    This is enough of a hassle that I will never make the purchase, despite being interested.
    - freese 9y ago
      Email me and I'll hook you up with a one time order!
      - xuki 9y ago
        You don't get it, do you? He doesn't want to email anyone just to order coffee.
  - darkst4r 9y ago
    I would also not sign up for a subscription service that does not let me cancel without contacting customer service. It's a dark pattern that too many subscription services adopt. The only reason for this is to make it more difficult to cancel. I was about to visit your site and try it out (depending on price), then I read that comment. If your willing to make it hard for me to cancel to try and squeeze in an extra buck then what else are you willing to do. I feel like it's shady and makes me not trust your company.
    - zloof 9y ago
      We do have a cancel button as well! Sorry if I was unclear. The UX on our site isn't the greatest - we use a platform to handle subscriptions. However, you definitely DO NOT need to contact support to cancel. Some people just find it easier to hit reply and say 'cancel'. FYI, we also proactively notify customers 3-4 days before a subscription renews. We want to make it as obvious as possible and give you the option to make adjustments. Transparency is critical for it to work.
lifeformed 9y ago
Or even just a jar/tub instead of individual servings.
- zloof 9y ago
  Looking into that. We haven't done it yet because we are worried the coffee will get stale. Individual servings ensure the coffee stays fresh - that's why we do it.

farorm 9y ago

Thats the first thing they teach you at YC, always be having that recurring revenue.

giarc 9y ago
They probably also teach you that any customer can turn into a recurring customer.
abeyer 9y ago
It's also one of the first things to turn off a new consumer thinking about taking a chance on an unknown brand. You're fighting the reputation of generations of scammers who promised "cancel any time" and either weasel-worded the small print or just outright ignored cancellation requests to charge as much as possible to recurring bills.
- username223 9y ago
  Automatic recurring billing is a "dark pattern" from back before anyone made up that term. The only reason it makes more money than one-time purchase or an honest subscription (where customers have to explicitly pay to resubscribe every month or year) is that people will forget or get frustrated when it's time to cancel. Do you want to run that sort of business? "Fun" fact: I bought a used car, only to discover that it apparently has free XM radio. I would not be surprised if someone unsuspecting person's card is being charged for it every month.
  - freese 9y ago
    If I wanted to start a scammy business running on recurring subscription I wouldn't have gone into all the trouble of developing new instant coffee ;) Obviously, we want to build a product that we and our subscribers love and choose to keep subscribing. Right now we have a lot of them. The biggest thing with the subscription is clear CAC vs. LTV. With our current model this equation works and we can profitably acquire new customers. This allows us to grow, make the product better and bring the cost down.

CrackpotGonzo 9y ago

+1 would love to sample before kicking in for subscription

startupdiscuss 9y ago

Sometimes the market speaks REALLY clearly! (1) I, too, would love to try it out. This does mean that if it is not much better than my Keurig (wasteful) single use, I may not re-up. Would be interested to see. (2) Also, would be great if the trial packets were available someplace that already had my credit card (like Amazon). (3) Do you have half-cafs?

giarc 9y ago
Regarding your Keurig comment. I really hated the amount of plastic waste going into landfills so I bought one of those plastic reusable cups. I wasn't impressed with the output or the work needed. I recently found Presidents Choice (large Canadian brand) has K cups for $0.50 a piece. They are compostable and made of spent coffee beans and other plant based material. If you are in Canada, go to your nearest superstore to test it out.
- mark-r 9y ago
  Costco carries San Francisco Bay coffee, which replaces the bottom 3/4 of the plastic K-cup with some kind of cloth filter. They claim it's less waste.
- startupdiscuss 9y ago
  Thanks for the tip. I am not in a large city so if I can get it on Amazon in half-caf, I will definitely buy that.
zloof 9y ago
Co-founder here - love the idea of having trial packets some place that's easier to buy, like Amazon. Will think on that. We do want to make it a lot easier to try (see my comment above) - figuring out the best ways to do that.
- danielvinson 9y ago
  Use the same model as Soylent... they have a very good system.

zloof 9y ago

Co-founder of Sudden here. This question comes up a lot. We have tried offering one-time purchases and it didn't work very well/ wasn't sustainable for us. 3 reasons we believe in a subscription model: 1) A big reason we started this company together was our shared belief in making customers feel good through hospitality. It's more than just the coffee itself. We want to build a better experience - if you are a Sudden subscriber, the experience should evolve over time, you'll learn more about coffee, try new things, have fun with it. To us, this wasn't about making something to have once a year on a road trip, but a way that we could connect with customers and create a larger community. A subscription is the best way for us to build a lasting experience at our current size. 2) For a lot of folks out there, it is super easy & convenient and they wouldn't have it any other way. They like that Sudden Coffee just arrives and they don't have to think about it. It's something they can add into their life. 3) Subscriptions mean we can offer the same product at a much cheaper price. We can spend a lot less time & money making ads or sending emails to remind you to buy again. This is the reality of what most CPG companies do - think about how often you see a toothpaste ad for a toothpaste you already own, even if you love it. We pass the savings directly on to customers. We ran the numbers, to offer the same coffee without a subscription, we'd have to charge $4-5/cup. To clarify 2 things: A) You definitely can still be in the target market for us. Our most popular subscription is 8/cups a month. This is meant to ADD-TO not REPLACE your existing coffee ritual. We find Sudden works best as your 'second-cup' of the day (at least as you try it out). We have plenty of customers who make a daily pour over and then use Sudden in the afternoon. B) We recognize that giving people a way to TRY before subscribing is a big gap in our service and we are actively experimenting with the best ways to do that. It may come in the form of referrals from other customers or special sales. We just brought on someone last week to think through the experience and were brainstorming about it this morning.

mark-r 9y ago
A subscription also doesn't allow for any fluctuation in demand. If you're having a bunch of people over and want to offer them great coffee, how do you do that without depriving yourself for the rest of the month?
- 9y ago