> I assure you my daughter is very real and ceased to be a hypothetical about a year ago Heh. "Hypothetical child or children of unspecified gender". > Callin

> I assure you my daughter is very real and ceased to be a hypothetical about a year ago Heh. "Hypothetical child or children of unspecified gender". > Calling it "weakness" to gravitate towards something that other members of your gender are doing is misplaced There's a difference between doing something and discovering that most of the people doing it are your gender, and doing something that a higher-power (the event organizers) made gender-segregated. And I don't mean there's a weakness in the person choosing the activity, I mean there's an apparent one you the parent are compensating for. Like if the event in question was basketball camps and you put your child in "Basketball for Short & Slow People". All the female-only events have a real taint of keeping out the strong performers so the weak can win too. imho it changes things from a primarily female-centric event which happens to cover programming to a people-centric event which forbids the "obviously" superior boys. What better way to make people feel second-class? > I'm not so naive to think that those were exactly welcoming enviornments for women. Agreed. But that seems like the problem to solve, by making sure that the events we organize aren't hostile to anyone. But anyone is far wider than women, and the offenders are far more diverse than men. > I don't really understand what "handicaps" the existence of an all-girl coding camp represents to men or boys. Not that there is a handicap, but that your son would feel like he's being given one so that he's on equal footing - just because he's male. > Who is getting really, genuinely hurt by this, in your opinion? Everyone. Both children, and all of society. Your daughter would feel less sense of accomplishment, your son would feel that his success is less important to you than hers or that he's already good so why strive. Children of either gender who don't learn in the stereotypical way the group leaders think they should and are thus less-served by the program. Trans kids would suffer from more physical-gender stereotyping and all these gender-specific camps would just prolong gender segregation for everyone. It's not an either-or question though. I don't think you should ignore traditional sexism, which I agree is huge pretty much everywhere including many classrooms. But I think we should do more-inclusive things, not less, to combat it. Things that help everyone, not that exclude. There's a real reason to have mentors who look like you, in whatever ways you see yourself, but not I think, to be separated from those who are different.