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I won't defend their demeaning public behaviour towards OpenBSD. I find it revolting. But they did make one donation to this OpenBSD developer. They sent me 3
by stsp 10y ago
I won't defend their demeaning public behaviour towards OpenBSD. I find it revolting.
But they did make one donation to this OpenBSD developer. They sent me 3 rcc-ve boards which I am still using for development: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/www/want.html#rev1.945 http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/www/want.html#rev1....
They took much more than they have given (which the source code licence allows them to do, even if it's morally wrong). Claiming they never gave anything at all is incorrect.
- notaplumber 10y agoI've edited my post, will remove it if you think it does more harm to highlight their actions than good.
- stsp 10y agoPlease don't remove your post. Pointing out these issues is very important, and making one donation should not indemnify people who behave in this way.
- ianai 10y agoNot necessarily a question for just you, but what have they done, exactly?
- cr0sh 10y ago> They took much more than they have given (which the source code licence allows them to do, even if it's morally wrong). I don't want to start a flame war, but if the BSD license allows for them to do this, why is it morally wrong? That is - how can you complain when the license explicitly allows for this? If you (not you personally, of course - but the OpenBSD project) didn't want this to happen, then the license would need to be changed to prevent it. Of course then, companies wouldn't be as willing to use the code, as we tend to see with the GPL. But if companies are just going to take the code, modify it, and not contribute the changes back (or contribute little back), where's the loss by using another license? If the loss is "but the code then won't be used in the greater ecosystem", why complain when it is? Again - I'm not trying to cause a flame war; everybody has their license and needs. I'm just trying to understand why there is complaints when code isn't contributed back under the BSD license, when it explicitly allows for this. Furthermore, I am wondering if there is anything we can do about it, that doesn't cause the kind of ire to rise when the GPL is invoked instead. Perhaps there isn't a solution, but I'd love to hear ideas on the subject.
- throwaway2048 10y agoThere is a difference between forcing what you believe to be right onto others via legal means, and wanting people to do the right thing because it is moral to do so.
- zokier 10y agoPersonally I find antagonizing non-contributing users more morally objectionable than the non-contribution. Of course I'm speaking generally, I don't know the backstory here so there might be some other things causing the bad blood. But I would prefer we as a community would not attack people/companies just for not contributing.
- throwaway2048 10y agopfsense has a long history of antagonizing their openbsd/freebsd upstreams.
- gonzo 10y agoI don't think there is any support for me being antagonistic toward FreeBSD. I've addressed openbsd elsewhere in this stream.
- AsyncAwait 10y agoThe GPL exists because Stallman knew that corporations seldom do the right thing if not required so by law.
- epistasis 10y agoI think the contributions under discussion here are monetary, not code, so the GPL doesn't have much to do with this. pfSense is open source, so the code is available.
- stephenr 10y agoAnd like the DRM he detests so much, he hurts the "good guys" more than the "bad guys". Plenty of companies simply avoid the gpl because it complicates things, and stick to more permissive licenses for their open source efforts. Plenty more just do what the fuck they want regardless of what the gpl says.
- unethical_ban 10y agoBehavior is one thing, but what is so wrong about "taking" more than "giving"? Isn't the development of a firewall distribution, and the provision of professional services around it, a good service in itself? Kind of like Greg Hartman fussing about Canonical not doing kernel contributions, as if that's the sole metric for being a Linux distro.
- na85 10y agoIsn't being able to take more than I give the entire point of the bsd license?
- gonzo 10y agoI've also reversed my stance on openbsd, and personally apologized to Henning. But none of that is public before now.
- notaplumber 10y agoGlad to hear it! I hope to see some more comradery between the two projects going forward.