6 ms·

It seems like they are preparing for more exits, the world has changed a lot in one year.

by rokosbasilisk 10y ago

PaulHoule 10y ago
Fortunately if the EU breaks apart, the 800 billion euro debt to Germany will be just enough to buy lunch.
- sean_patel 10y ago
  > 800 billion euro debt to Germany. Wow! Didn't know about this. Do several countries owe Germany this debt? How?? Also if true, then Germany will also see a lot of Social unrest and the anger will be (unjustly) directed towards Refugees. And with all the young high-testonterone Arab refugees now living in Germany, and a civil unrest in the horizon, Germany seems to be 1 dangerous place to be in right now, especially for young single German women.
  - jimnotgym 10y ago
    Which you will hear a lot more of in the UK and US press than you will in Germany
  - neximo64 10y ago
    Target2. While you may take this tone, there are serious shortcomings. Such as a bit of Germany's budget being financed through Greece's misery and borrowings from Target2 when Greek funds were put into the German banking system. The way the ECB works is its built on National Central Banks lending each other funds and paying interest on borrowings to each other. So take Euros from Greece and put them into Germany means Greece borrows those Euros back.
  - tele 10y ago
    The rate of rape in Germany is 9.37 per 100,000 people.[Wikipedia] The rate of rape in the US is 26.95 per 100,000 people. [FBI UCS Annual Crime Reports]
    - sean_patel 10y ago
      > The rate of rape in Germany is 9.37 per 100,000 people.[Wikipedia] Wrong. Wikipedia now shows > The rate of rape in Germany is 3470 per 100,000 people. (guess who updated it :) Quote a better source for your stats please.
      - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
        Not only does Wikipedia[1] not reflect the statistics you're quoting, I find it hard to believe the rate of rape increased from 9 per 100,000 in 2009 to 3470 just 7-8 years later. Please provide your source.
      - tele 10y ago
        Are you going to source your stats, or simply make the claim that the rate of rape in Germany is 26 times that of South Africa, with 132.4 per 100,000?
cm2187 10y ago
I think the big question is the Italian elections of 2018. I understand the 5* movment is already pretty much the strongest political party. If they take over the parliament, this may mean the exit of the EU or euro. The Netherlands are probably close too, with elections in March this year, though I understand Wilders is unlikely to have enough seats to take power. Le Pen in France is unlikely to make its break through at the elections this year, but it is not inconcievable in 5 years. I am of the opinion that the days of the EU are numbered. High unemployment, slow growth, combined with African & Middle-East immigration and Muslim fundamentalism are going to put increasing pressure on traditional social-democrat parties, and with this a general momentum (Brexit, Trump). It may be that the UK might enjoy the status or independant safe heaven when it all happens and investors run to the door and that Brexit turns out to be a blessing in disguise.
- alva 10y ago
  Extremely interesting times indeed. Massive political changes will always involve a certain amount of pain, but I believe the writing has been on the wall since 2008 and from political actions taken since. The problem as I see it, is that the EU is trying to stop the tide. I believe this will fail due to the sheer amount of frustration felt by many of the populations who have not necessarily received or appreciated the globalisation as it has been implemented so far. Unfortunately for the EU, the only changes that could save itself are antithetical to its hardcore believers and leaders who are in charge. Those who are looking to turn Europe into essentially one country (sounds crazy, but that has been the long and relatively successful game from the beginning), will not budge on a few key issues which are vital to their end game. The David Cameron negotiation was an example of this. If the EU had dropped Freedom of Movement, UK would have almost certainly remained. Ideology vs pragmatism. Old story.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    Rather, the EU is in a deadlock. It is stuck with a partial integration. The only solution that would save it, i.e. complete the integration and make it a federal government, is now impossible in the current political climate. So it is left being a collection of laws and treaties with no clear leadership and direction of travel, and therefore will keep accumulating grievances without being able to do anything about them.

It seems like they are preparing for more exits, the world has changed a lot in one year.

PaulHoule 10y ago

Fortunately if the EU breaks apart, the 800 billion euro debt to Germany will be just enough to buy lunch.

sean_patel 10y ago
> 800 billion euro debt to Germany. Wow! Didn't know about this. Do several countries owe Germany this debt? How?? Also if true, then Germany will also see a lot of Social unrest and the anger will be (unjustly) directed towards Refugees. And with all the young high-testonterone Arab refugees now living in Germany, and a civil unrest in the horizon, Germany seems to be 1 dangerous place to be in right now, especially for young single German women.
- jimnotgym 10y ago
  Which you will hear a lot more of in the UK and US press than you will in Germany
- neximo64 10y ago
  Target2. While you may take this tone, there are serious shortcomings. Such as a bit of Germany's budget being financed through Greece's misery and borrowings from Target2 when Greek funds were put into the German banking system. The way the ECB works is its built on National Central Banks lending each other funds and paying interest on borrowings to each other. So take Euros from Greece and put them into Germany means Greece borrows those Euros back.
- tele 10y ago
  The rate of rape in Germany is 9.37 per 100,000 people.[Wikipedia] The rate of rape in the US is 26.95 per 100,000 people. [FBI UCS Annual Crime Reports]
  - sean_patel 10y ago
    > The rate of rape in Germany is 9.37 per 100,000 people.[Wikipedia] Wrong. Wikipedia now shows > The rate of rape in Germany is 3470 per 100,000 people. (guess who updated it :) Quote a better source for your stats please.
    - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
      Not only does Wikipedia[1] not reflect the statistics you're quoting, I find it hard to believe the rate of rape increased from 9 per 100,000 in 2009 to 3470 just 7-8 years later. Please provide your source.
    - tele 10y ago
      Are you going to source your stats, or simply make the claim that the rate of rape in Germany is 26 times that of South Africa, with 132.4 per 100,000?

cm2187 10y ago

I think the big question is the Italian elections of 2018. I understand the 5* movment is already pretty much the strongest political party. If they take over the parliament, this may mean the exit of the EU or euro. The Netherlands are probably close too, with elections in March this year, though I understand Wilders is unlikely to have enough seats to take power. Le Pen in France is unlikely to make its break through at the elections this year, but it is not inconcievable in 5 years. I am of the opinion that the days of the EU are numbered. High unemployment, slow growth, combined with African & Middle-East immigration and Muslim fundamentalism are going to put increasing pressure on traditional social-democrat parties, and with this a general momentum (Brexit, Trump). It may be that the UK might enjoy the status or independant safe heaven when it all happens and investors run to the door and that Brexit turns out to be a blessing in disguise.

alva 10y ago
Extremely interesting times indeed. Massive political changes will always involve a certain amount of pain, but I believe the writing has been on the wall since 2008 and from political actions taken since. The problem as I see it, is that the EU is trying to stop the tide. I believe this will fail due to the sheer amount of frustration felt by many of the populations who have not necessarily received or appreciated the globalisation as it has been implemented so far. Unfortunately for the EU, the only changes that could save itself are antithetical to its hardcore believers and leaders who are in charge. Those who are looking to turn Europe into essentially one country (sounds crazy, but that has been the long and relatively successful game from the beginning), will not budge on a few key issues which are vital to their end game. The David Cameron negotiation was an example of this. If the EU had dropped Freedom of Movement, UK would have almost certainly remained. Ideology vs pragmatism. Old story.
- cm2187 10y ago
  Rather, the EU is in a deadlock. It is stuck with a partial integration. The only solution that would save it, i.e. complete the integration and make it a federal government, is now impossible in the current political climate. So it is left being a collection of laws and treaties with no clear leadership and direction of travel, and therefore will keep accumulating grievances without being able to do anything about them.