7 ms·

"Oracle was far more likely to hire Asian applicants - particularly Indian people - for product development and technical roles than black, white or Hispanic jo

"Oracle was far more likely to hire Asian applicants - particularly Indian people - for product development and technical roles than black, white or Hispanic job seekers." Can the DOL back up this claim with salary data to see if Oracle is abusing the H1-B visa system by purposefully keeping wages low? Most of the time it is just easier to hire Asian/Indian employees because they are readily available (larger proportion of population entering tech filed via education or change of career). It would be interesting to see how far DOL can stretch this. Edit 1: Improvement

titomc 10y ago
" Most of the time it is just easier to hire Asian/Indian employees because they are readily available " - I doubt that. It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them, because their visa status is tied to the employer. The employers have H1B workers on a leash. The process of hiring an H1B worker in short. - Hire an immigration lawyer. - Post an LCA. - Apply petition to USCIS. - Pay petition fees (higher for fast track process) - Respond to USCIS queries. - Get petition approved. - Done - Its a different game if the employer wants retain the H1B worker after 6th year of H1B. So hiring is not easy. But retaining and paying them is "easy". So why do these corporations take this much pain in hiring H1B workers ? No its not the skills they are after. (after all H1B is lottery based not skill based right ? )
- gmarx 10y ago
  or possibly Indians didn't get the diversity memo and are more likely to hire other Indians than the analogous instinct in white managers? It's odd that the suit alleges that white people are discriminated against relative to Indians yet those that are hired are paid more.
  - hemantv 10y ago
    More often than not you will find opposite to be true.
    - gmarx 10y ago
      Opposite of which?
      - hemantv 10y ago
        Indians treating other Indians favorably. In most cases I found they are more harsh than to other people. In general I have found Indian and Chinese to be much more harsh.
        gmarx 10y ago
        Harsh in personal interactions perhaps. People generally feel free to be blunter with close people relative to strangers. The issue here is hiring practices
  - r00fus 10y ago
    It's all about the H1Bs. Oracle wants cheap labor and Asians (Indians) are statistically more likely to be H1B than non-Asians. Thus the higher aggregate salaries for whites (likelihood to be H1B is minuscule).
- mavelikara 10y ago
  The time when an immigrant gets their H1-B the first time is based on a lottery. Subsequent job changes while on H-1B is not via any lottery.
  - briandear 10y ago
    As a point of fact, an H-1B is a non-immigrant visa.
    - bdhe 10y ago
      > Even though the H-1B visa is a non-immigrant visa, it is one of the few temporary visa categories recognized as dual intent, meaning an H-1B holder can have legal immigration intent (apply for and obtain the green card) while still a holder of the H-1B visa. Effectively, the requirement to maintain a foreign address for this non-immigrant classification was removed in the Immigration Act of 1990.[22] Citations from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa
- bduerst 10y ago
  H1B workers can, and routinely do, switch companies. Their new employer has only to file the paperwork to transfer their visa, so your assumptions about retaining H1B workers are not very accurate.
  - ergothus 10y ago
    I've mentioned this elsewhere before, but I've had experiences at both ends of the H1B chain. In one workplace & location in the US: The H1B workers were...not very good. Adequate, and hard working, but not highly skilled and they were brought in mainly because the location didn't want to/couldn't pay wages good enough to hire skilled US-based talent. There the H1B workers were (in general) fearful and unwilling to complain, because they knew their personal odds of getting another US gig were NOT guaranteed. This left me understanding the various H1B complaints, as the workplace was terrible. In another workplace in a different US location, the H1B workers were equal or better than any US-citizens working there. The workers were highly sought after and were interested in speaking up to make the workplace better. Switching jobs for them WAS a hassle, but a very doable hassle, so the workplace had keep them as happy as non-H1B workers. This left me understanding the OTHER side of the H1B issues, as these workers raised up rather than lowered their workplaces. I've had multiple friends spend months uncertain if their visas would be renewed (Most companies seem to employ offshore lawyers to handle the visas on the other ends, and I've heard some horror stories about those lawyers sometimes vanishing, or misfiling). Also, I've had friends that had to stay put in a job during a certain phase of getting their green cards - a change in job title would reportedly move them back to the end of the queue of that step. (No idea about the specifics) All in all, I've found it pretty hard to generalize about H1B workers and the process as an entire whole.
    - vaishaksuresh 10y ago
      This may be my bias, but the experience you had is explainable. The former H1B workers probably were in the US as an onsite assignment or through a consultancy/contractor. Most Indian consultancies view people as warm bodies on the chair. Which is why you find people with fewer skills. The latter workers are most likely people who relocated to the US for education or were hired from India from a US employer because of their skills.
- pslam 10y ago
  You're missing the part where the employer is required to: - Post representative salary data, including the last few (5?) hires to this position. - Publish the job position locally, so it can be filled by local workers preferentially, and then only by H1B if unfilled. - Ensure the worker is initially paid a salary similar to other existing hires in that position. I don't understand how people make the leap that H1B is used to lower wages. It's an awfully complex, risky and inefficient way to suppress wages. You would need to lie about "prevailing wages" in order for this scheme to work, which is illegal and would put you and your company into deep trouble.
  - coredog64 10y ago
    My employer posts these notices in a public place. In taking to my coworkers, nobody looks at them to determine if the posted salaries are in the correct range.
  - bduerst 10y ago
    >I don't understand how people make the leap that H1B is used to lower wages. It's because immigration has been politicized in the U.S., and the average citizens' understanding of immigration is what they read in the news. Which is fair, because immigration is a bureaucracy that the average citizen doesn't need to be an expert at, but this complexity makes it easier for misinformation to spread about it.
  - dend 10y ago
    Correct. The H-1B process is incredibly complex and is not a matter of simply applying and bringing a person in.
  - toyg 10y ago
    > You would need to lie about "prevailing wages" Yeah, we all know a huge corporation would never lie, especially not such a shining beacon of progressive virtue as Oracle, where profit always takes a backseat to human decency. I mean, it's not like such a huge company can spare a few hours of paperwork drudge to set up such a scheme; they certainly don't have legions of Romanian dudes ready to file any form they're told to file to keep their job. TBH, you don't even need to lie. How many government bureaucrats are deeply familiar with wages of a Fusion Enterprise Foobar for Middleware Cloud Baz Devop Ninja, a position that likely exists only in Oracle itself? Just make sure the position is properly "jailed" internally so all hires are consistent ("we don't have any DBAs here, we only have BigData Deployment and Maintenance Specialists for the Cloud Grid, totally different thing") and publish the job "locally" in places nobody will ever pay attention to, or on an intranet job-site where no application will ever be reviewed or actioned. > It's an awfully complex, risky and inefficient way to suppress wages. I agree that there are easier ways, like relocating all your operations in cheaper countries - something Oracle has already done almost 100%. But half the developing world seems to be on fire at the moment, and the other half "suffers" wage inflation at increasingly rapid pace, so watchagonnado...
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  You forgot the part about rejecting all current U.S. nationals as unable to work the position. This is often by requiring X+Y years of experience with an X year old buzzword, and then telling your recruiter exactly how to lie on the resume. But it may also be by giving people actual interviews and then either offering them a wage lower than what is intended for the H1B import, or rejecting them for unspecified reasons. Whenever I get dicked around in the interviews by a potential employer, I start to suspect ulterior motives. One time, for my own amusement, I asked to see their H1B public records. The company immediately got very defensive, and got their lawyer involved just long enough to hastily research what I was talking about, assemble the records, and set up all the flaming hoops I would have to jump through in order to see them. It was almost like they were hiding something. I didn't actually want to see the records, I just wanted to see that they were willing to show them (or that they didn't have records because they didn't have any H1B employees). It was a lot like asking a toddler who ate the last cookie in the jar, and watching them hide their hands from you as they say, "Maybe it was the invisible ghost ninjas." I don't need that level of immaturity in an employer.
  - lawnchair_larry 10y ago
    They responded that way because that's such an absurdly strange thing for the candidate to ask, not because they were hiding anything or had ulterior motives. I suspect there are other reasons why you're being rejected. This seems like paranoid thinking. Most companies won't provide a rejection reason as a matter of policy.
    - logfromblammo 10y ago
      ...which promotes paranoid thinking. I only asked after it was already clear I was no longer being considered, and I (politely) asked for some feedback on the interview. They wouldn't say one thing about it, good or bad--wall of silence. So, as is common with whiteboard interviews, I threw out something unexpected to see how they would react. The fact that they reacted so poorly made me feel better about their rejection. It's not me; it's them. I didn't just fail to impress. Instead, I unknowingly avoided a future disaster. I naturally proceed under the assumption that there is nothing actually wrong with me, as a person or as a candidate for employment. From my perspective, I am a normal person, and a competent software professional. I can be pleasant and sociable. I have been on enough interviews to get a sense of what is "normal" and what is strange--even strange for a tech interview. Usually, that determination only happens after the fact, or very late in the process, but I can still eventually tell when something was out of place. So when I haven't done anything that would make it clear to me that I have blown the interview, and the company won't give me a reason for rejection, or even suggest one thing that I could improve upon, I naturally take that to mean that there is something wrong with the company. At the least, they are simply too rude to give a candidate any kind of (possibly helpful to them) feedback afterward. But they could also be concealing an unethical hiring practice behind a wall of corporate policy and plausible deniability. There's no way for me to know, and I don't really care by the time I get to that point. There are way too many other companies out there willing to go out on a first date to sit and stew over the ones that won't return your phone calls. I can't even remember the name of the company now. Which is unfortunate, because I'd have to search through old e-mails to avoid accidentally applying to them again.
- vthallam 10y ago
  > It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them Wow. Why do you think someone on H1B will agree for a lower wage assuming he/she has a good skill set to get into oracle or similar company? Changing to a diff job on H1B involves some paper work which everyone is used to do now. If we are talking about Indian consulting companies getting low wage employees, it might be partially true.
  - 1_2__3 10y ago
    Because some of us live in the real world and see this literally happening every single day?
    - vthallam 10y ago
      Every single day? May be you should come out and meet more people, just saying. Again, you might come across certain incidents where this might be true and there are cases, where they are more educated than an average American and get paid more. But to generalize very broadly is something won't help people properly understand the issue.
  - dannypgh 10y ago
    Changing jobs always carries risk - the new company might not be a good fit, and you may not last there very long perhaps for reasons beyond your control. Likewise, there are many jobs - e.g. early startups - where the risk of the company itself going under may be significant. People in the country on an H1B lose their lawful status immediately after their employment ends, which means being unemployed for any period of time carries risk of deportation. Most people don't want a change in their work situation to translate into being forced to leave their country of residence. Between these two points, I'd expect people here on an H1B to have a narrower field of jobs that seem attractive - high-risk startups aren't going to be appealing to most, and to generally be less mobile than those who don't fear deportation if a new position doesn't work out. Because of this decreased mobility, employers can get away with paying less.
  - pps43 10y ago
    Someone on H1B usually is also waiting for employment-based green card or promise to file for one. Going to another employer means that this multi-year process needs to be restarted.
- chrisper 10y ago
  You forgot that there is a lottery. So there is more than just applying for one applicant.
infinite_beam 10y ago
your comment : "Oracle was far more likely to hire Asian applicants - particularly Indian people - for product development and technical roles than black, white or Hispanic job seekers." vs what it says in https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ofccp/ofccp20170118-0 https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ofccp/ofccp20170118-0 "The suit also challenges Oracle’s systemic practice of favoring Asian workers in its recruiting and hiring practices for product development and other technical roles, which resulted in hiring discrimination against non-Asian applicants."
- damnfinecoffee 10y ago
  That comment is literally a direct quote from the reuters article
conanbatt 10y ago
> abusing the H1-B visa system by purposefully keeping wages low? I hate this argument. All immigration has a first-degree effect of lowering wages, because it increases the supply of labor. Believe me, foreigners do not like H1Bs, its a piece of shit, and would wish for free passage or as easy as it can be. And if that happened, that would lower wages of everyone, and raise theirs. Reneging that h1b allows to hire cheaper people is reneging immigration. You want to raise the wages of foreigners, just give them more freedom to change companies, so the parent company will not have as much leverage. But thats not the compnies fault, thats the governments fault. Its the government that suppresses wages in a very negative way.
- Pxtl 10y ago
  I can see the difference between wanting the jobs to go to new Americans (who happen to be Indian landed immigrants with a long-term intent to spend the rest of their lives in the West) and wanting the money to go to people who're going right back to India when the project is over, even if the depressing effect on salaries is equal.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- briandear 10y ago
  However, the H-1B visa is a non immigrant visa.
  - bigbang 10y ago
    That's not true. It's a dual intent visa - otherwise one would not be allowed to file for green card while being on H1 visa
pslam 10y ago
You would think, from your comment, that this case involved immigration and/or the H1-B Visa system. But it doesn't. Immigration isn't mentioned whatsoever in the document. > Can the DOL back up this claim with salary data to see if Oracle is abusing the H1-B visa system by purposefully keeping wages low? Readers should note that this is purely your own conjecture. The H1-B visa system is not relevant to this story.
elastic_church 10y ago
Oracle America in Redwood Shores H1B salaries, for reference http://www.h1bdata.info/index.php?em=oracle&job=&city=REDWOOD+SHORES&year=All+Years http://www.h1bdata.info/index.php?em=oracle&job=&city=REDWOO...

titomc 10y ago

" Most of the time it is just easier to hire Asian/Indian employees because they are readily available " - I doubt that. It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them, because their visa status is tied to the employer. The employers have H1B workers on a leash. The process of hiring an H1B worker in short. - Hire an immigration lawyer. - Post an LCA. - Apply petition to USCIS. - Pay petition fees (higher for fast track process) - Respond to USCIS queries. - Get petition approved. - Done - Its a different game if the employer wants retain the H1B worker after 6th year of H1B. So hiring is not easy. But retaining and paying them is "easy". So why do these corporations take this much pain in hiring H1B workers ? No its not the skills they are after. (after all H1B is lottery based not skill based right ? )

gmarx 10y ago
or possibly Indians didn't get the diversity memo and are more likely to hire other Indians than the analogous instinct in white managers? It's odd that the suit alleges that white people are discriminated against relative to Indians yet those that are hired are paid more.
- hemantv 10y ago
  More often than not you will find opposite to be true.
  - gmarx 10y ago
    Opposite of which?
    - hemantv 10y ago
      Indians treating other Indians favorably. In most cases I found they are more harsh than to other people. In general I have found Indian and Chinese to be much more harsh.
      - gmarx 10y ago
        Harsh in personal interactions perhaps. People generally feel free to be blunter with close people relative to strangers. The issue here is hiring practices
- r00fus 10y ago
  It's all about the H1Bs. Oracle wants cheap labor and Asians (Indians) are statistically more likely to be H1B than non-Asians. Thus the higher aggregate salaries for whites (likelihood to be H1B is minuscule).
mavelikara 10y ago
The time when an immigrant gets their H1-B the first time is based on a lottery. Subsequent job changes while on H-1B is not via any lottery.
- briandear 10y ago
  As a point of fact, an H-1B is a non-immigrant visa.
  - bdhe 10y ago
    > Even though the H-1B visa is a non-immigrant visa, it is one of the few temporary visa categories recognized as dual intent, meaning an H-1B holder can have legal immigration intent (apply for and obtain the green card) while still a holder of the H-1B visa. Effectively, the requirement to maintain a foreign address for this non-immigrant classification was removed in the Immigration Act of 1990.[22] Citations from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa
bduerst 10y ago
H1B workers can, and routinely do, switch companies. Their new employer has only to file the paperwork to transfer their visa, so your assumptions about retaining H1B workers are not very accurate.
- ergothus 10y ago
  I've mentioned this elsewhere before, but I've had experiences at both ends of the H1B chain. In one workplace & location in the US: The H1B workers were...not very good. Adequate, and hard working, but not highly skilled and they were brought in mainly because the location didn't want to/couldn't pay wages good enough to hire skilled US-based talent. There the H1B workers were (in general) fearful and unwilling to complain, because they knew their personal odds of getting another US gig were NOT guaranteed. This left me understanding the various H1B complaints, as the workplace was terrible. In another workplace in a different US location, the H1B workers were equal or better than any US-citizens working there. The workers were highly sought after and were interested in speaking up to make the workplace better. Switching jobs for them WAS a hassle, but a very doable hassle, so the workplace had keep them as happy as non-H1B workers. This left me understanding the OTHER side of the H1B issues, as these workers raised up rather than lowered their workplaces. I've had multiple friends spend months uncertain if their visas would be renewed (Most companies seem to employ offshore lawyers to handle the visas on the other ends, and I've heard some horror stories about those lawyers sometimes vanishing, or misfiling). Also, I've had friends that had to stay put in a job during a certain phase of getting their green cards - a change in job title would reportedly move them back to the end of the queue of that step. (No idea about the specifics) All in all, I've found it pretty hard to generalize about H1B workers and the process as an entire whole.
  - vaishaksuresh 10y ago
    This may be my bias, but the experience you had is explainable. The former H1B workers probably were in the US as an onsite assignment or through a consultancy/contractor. Most Indian consultancies view people as warm bodies on the chair. Which is why you find people with fewer skills. The latter workers are most likely people who relocated to the US for education or were hired from India from a US employer because of their skills.
pslam 10y ago
You're missing the part where the employer is required to: - Post representative salary data, including the last few (5?) hires to this position. - Publish the job position locally, so it can be filled by local workers preferentially, and then only by H1B if unfilled. - Ensure the worker is initially paid a salary similar to other existing hires in that position. I don't understand how people make the leap that H1B is used to lower wages. It's an awfully complex, risky and inefficient way to suppress wages. You would need to lie about "prevailing wages" in order for this scheme to work, which is illegal and would put you and your company into deep trouble.
- coredog64 10y ago
  My employer posts these notices in a public place. In taking to my coworkers, nobody looks at them to determine if the posted salaries are in the correct range.
- bduerst 10y ago
  >I don't understand how people make the leap that H1B is used to lower wages. It's because immigration has been politicized in the U.S., and the average citizens' understanding of immigration is what they read in the news. Which is fair, because immigration is a bureaucracy that the average citizen doesn't need to be an expert at, but this complexity makes it easier for misinformation to spread about it.
- dend 10y ago
  Correct. The H-1B process is incredibly complex and is not a matter of simply applying and bringing a person in.
- toyg 10y ago
  > You would need to lie about "prevailing wages" Yeah, we all know a huge corporation would never lie, especially not such a shining beacon of progressive virtue as Oracle, where profit always takes a backseat to human decency. I mean, it's not like such a huge company can spare a few hours of paperwork drudge to set up such a scheme; they certainly don't have legions of Romanian dudes ready to file any form they're told to file to keep their job. TBH, you don't even need to lie. How many government bureaucrats are deeply familiar with wages of a Fusion Enterprise Foobar for Middleware Cloud Baz Devop Ninja, a position that likely exists only in Oracle itself? Just make sure the position is properly "jailed" internally so all hires are consistent ("we don't have any DBAs here, we only have BigData Deployment and Maintenance Specialists for the Cloud Grid, totally different thing") and publish the job "locally" in places nobody will ever pay attention to, or on an intranet job-site where no application will ever be reviewed or actioned. > It's an awfully complex, risky and inefficient way to suppress wages. I agree that there are easier ways, like relocating all your operations in cheaper countries - something Oracle has already done almost 100%. But half the developing world seems to be on fire at the moment, and the other half "suffers" wage inflation at increasingly rapid pace, so watchagonnado...
logfromblammo 10y ago
You forgot the part about rejecting all current U.S. nationals as unable to work the position. This is often by requiring X+Y years of experience with an X year old buzzword, and then telling your recruiter exactly how to lie on the resume. But it may also be by giving people actual interviews and then either offering them a wage lower than what is intended for the H1B import, or rejecting them for unspecified reasons. Whenever I get dicked around in the interviews by a potential employer, I start to suspect ulterior motives. One time, for my own amusement, I asked to see their H1B public records. The company immediately got very defensive, and got their lawyer involved just long enough to hastily research what I was talking about, assemble the records, and set up all the flaming hoops I would have to jump through in order to see them. It was almost like they were hiding something. I didn't actually want to see the records, I just wanted to see that they were willing to show them (or that they didn't have records because they didn't have any H1B employees). It was a lot like asking a toddler who ate the last cookie in the jar, and watching them hide their hands from you as they say, "Maybe it was the invisible ghost ninjas." I don't need that level of immaturity in an employer.
- lawnchair_larry 10y ago
  They responded that way because that's such an absurdly strange thing for the candidate to ask, not because they were hiding anything or had ulterior motives. I suspect there are other reasons why you're being rejected. This seems like paranoid thinking. Most companies won't provide a rejection reason as a matter of policy.
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    ...which promotes paranoid thinking. I only asked after it was already clear I was no longer being considered, and I (politely) asked for some feedback on the interview. They wouldn't say one thing about it, good or bad--wall of silence. So, as is common with whiteboard interviews, I threw out something unexpected to see how they would react. The fact that they reacted so poorly made me feel better about their rejection. It's not me; it's them. I didn't just fail to impress. Instead, I unknowingly avoided a future disaster. I naturally proceed under the assumption that there is nothing actually wrong with me, as a person or as a candidate for employment. From my perspective, I am a normal person, and a competent software professional. I can be pleasant and sociable. I have been on enough interviews to get a sense of what is "normal" and what is strange--even strange for a tech interview. Usually, that determination only happens after the fact, or very late in the process, but I can still eventually tell when something was out of place. So when I haven't done anything that would make it clear to me that I have blown the interview, and the company won't give me a reason for rejection, or even suggest one thing that I could improve upon, I naturally take that to mean that there is something wrong with the company. At the least, they are simply too rude to give a candidate any kind of (possibly helpful to them) feedback afterward. But they could also be concealing an unethical hiring practice behind a wall of corporate policy and plausible deniability. There's no way for me to know, and I don't really care by the time I get to that point. There are way too many other companies out there willing to go out on a first date to sit and stew over the ones that won't return your phone calls. I can't even remember the name of the company now. Which is unfortunate, because I'd have to search through old e-mails to avoid accidentally applying to them again.
vthallam 10y ago
> It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them Wow. Why do you think someone on H1B will agree for a lower wage assuming he/she has a good skill set to get into oracle or similar company? Changing to a diff job on H1B involves some paper work which everyone is used to do now. If we are talking about Indian consulting companies getting low wage employees, it might be partially true.
- 1_2__3 10y ago
  Because some of us live in the real world and see this literally happening every single day?
  - vthallam 10y ago
    Every single day? May be you should come out and meet more people, just saying. Again, you might come across certain incidents where this might be true and there are cases, where they are more educated than an average American and get paid more. But to generalize very broadly is something won't help people properly understand the issue.
- dannypgh 10y ago
  Changing jobs always carries risk - the new company might not be a good fit, and you may not last there very long perhaps for reasons beyond your control. Likewise, there are many jobs - e.g. early startups - where the risk of the company itself going under may be significant. People in the country on an H1B lose their lawful status immediately after their employment ends, which means being unemployed for any period of time carries risk of deportation. Most people don't want a change in their work situation to translate into being forced to leave their country of residence. Between these two points, I'd expect people here on an H1B to have a narrower field of jobs that seem attractive - high-risk startups aren't going to be appealing to most, and to generally be less mobile than those who don't fear deportation if a new position doesn't work out. Because of this decreased mobility, employers can get away with paying less.
- pps43 10y ago
  Someone on H1B usually is also waiting for employment-based green card or promise to file for one. Going to another employer means that this multi-year process needs to be restarted.
chrisper 10y ago
You forgot that there is a lottery. So there is more than just applying for one applicant.

infinite_beam 10y ago

your comment : "Oracle was far more likely to hire Asian applicants - particularly Indian people - for product development and technical roles than black, white or Hispanic job seekers." vs what it says in https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ofccp/ofccp20170118-0 https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ofccp/ofccp20170118-0 "The suit also challenges Oracle’s systemic practice of favoring Asian workers in its recruiting and hiring practices for product development and other technical roles, which resulted in hiring discrimination against non-Asian applicants."

damnfinecoffee 10y ago
That comment is literally a direct quote from the reuters article

conanbatt 10y ago

> abusing the H1-B visa system by purposefully keeping wages low? I hate this argument. All immigration has a first-degree effect of lowering wages, because it increases the supply of labor. Believe me, foreigners do not like H1Bs, its a piece of shit, and would wish for free passage or as easy as it can be. And if that happened, that would lower wages of everyone, and raise theirs. Reneging that h1b allows to hire cheaper people is reneging immigration. You want to raise the wages of foreigners, just give them more freedom to change companies, so the parent company will not have as much leverage. But thats not the compnies fault, thats the governments fault. Its the government that suppresses wages in a very negative way.

Pxtl 10y ago
I can see the difference between wanting the jobs to go to new Americans (who happen to be Indian landed immigrants with a long-term intent to spend the rest of their lives in the West) and wanting the money to go to people who're going right back to India when the project is over, even if the depressing effect on salaries is equal.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
briandear 10y ago
However, the H-1B visa is a non immigrant visa.
- bigbang 10y ago
  That's not true. It's a dual intent visa - otherwise one would not be allowed to file for green card while being on H1 visa

pslam 10y ago

You would think, from your comment, that this case involved immigration and/or the H1-B Visa system. But it doesn't. Immigration isn't mentioned whatsoever in the document. > Can the DOL back up this claim with salary data to see if Oracle is abusing the H1-B visa system by purposefully keeping wages low? Readers should note that this is purely your own conjecture. The H1-B visa system is not relevant to this story.

elastic_church 10y ago

Oracle America in Redwood Shores H1B salaries, for reference http://www.h1bdata.info/index.php?em=oracle&job=&city=REDWOOD+SHORES&year=All+Years http://www.h1bdata.info/index.php?em=oracle&job=&city=REDWOO...