6 ms·

The UBI already exists for the 1%

17 points by spditner 10y ago

senior_james 10y ago
"In 2015, according to PSZ, the richest 1% of people in America received 20.2% of all the income in the nation. Ten points of that 20.2% came from equity income, net interest, housing rents, and the capital component of mixed income. " How can you possibly equate this to UBI? Everything listed here is money earned through risk/work. UBI is a free check from the government.
- John23832 10y ago
  The article equates the difference between the capital gains and income taxes as UBI for rich people.
xt00 10y ago
Saying that rich people who earn money from people paying rent on houses/apartments that they own or investments paying back over time, is like saying that a farmer who planted the crop earlier in the year is "getting it for free" later.. I would agree if the UBI was equated to "my dad is super rich and I don't have to worry about money...". so those rich kids with no cares in the world, how do they usually turn out?
whack 10y ago
It's somewhat of a stretch to compare capital income and UBI. The people receiving capital income today are reaping the benefits of their prior income that they had paid taxes for, and chosen to save instead of spend. This is qualitatively different from someone getting a no-strings-attached payment from the government. I'm all in favor of UBI, but this doesn't sound like a valid argument.
chrisbennet 10y ago
"The universal basic income — a cash payment made to every individual in the country — has been critiqued recently by some commentators. Among other things, these writers dislike the fact that a UBI would deliver individuals income in a way that is divorced from working. Such an income arrangement would, it is argued, lead to meaninglessness, social dysfunction, and resentment. One obvious problem with this analysis is that passive income — income divorced from work — already exists. It is called capital income. It flows out to various individuals in society in the form of interest, rents, and dividends. According to Piketty, Saez, and Zucman (PSZ), around 30% of all the income produced in the nation is paid out as capital income. "
drewrv 10y ago
I've met a number of wealthy people in my life who never had to work and I wouldn't wish that life upon my enemies. I don't know how else to phrase it but having to work builds character. That being said, I'm a fan of the idea behind a UBI.
- cjlars 10y ago
  I wonder how much selection bias is embedded in this (common) sentiment. It takes a certain type of character flaw to want to flaunt your money. I'd imagine there's a silent majority among wealthy heirs that just never bring it up, try to blend in, and are perfectly well-adjusted.
  - drewrv 10y ago
    Also possible that they have a sense of superiority that people living off a UBI wouldn't have. Or that an heirs parents were never around because they were too busy. It's why I try not to reason from my own anecdotes and support a UBI despite having this grumpy old man in my head complaining about how needing to work builds character.
  - SamBam 10y ago
    Very true. I have coworkers who I only found out years later were wealthy through family money. They worked as hard as anyone else, and no one had any reason to know they were wealthy. I'd love to see studies on this, though.
    - cjlars 10y ago
      Just did some googling on this. For the most part, there doesn't seem to be much research on inheritance & personality disorders, which is odd because 'does money make us happy' is one of the biggest questions in sociology. I did find this paper however, which is full of tangential information: https://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mygsb/faculty/research/pubfiles/2669/Too%20much%20not%20enough.pdf https://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mygsb/faculty/research/pubfile...
  - cfreeman 10y ago
Rockslide 10y ago
Discussion from four days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13303420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13303420
aminorex 10y ago
Please don't overlook the more valid point: Simply uniformly distributing a portion of the passive interest on the wealth of the top 1% globally would suffice to eliminate the most brutal poverty worldwide.

17 points by spditner 10y ago

"In 2015, according to PSZ, the richest 1% of people in America received 20.2% of all the income in the nation. Ten points of that 20.2% came from equity income, net interest, housing rents, and the capital component of mixed income. " How can you possibly equate this to UBI? Everything listed here is money earned through risk/work. UBI is a free check from the government.

John23832 10y ago
The article equates the difference between the capital gains and income taxes as UBI for rich people.

xt00 10y ago

Saying that rich people who earn money from people paying rent on houses/apartments that they own or investments paying back over time, is like saying that a farmer who planted the crop earlier in the year is "getting it for free" later.. I would agree if the UBI was equated to "my dad is super rich and I don't have to worry about money...". so those rich kids with no cares in the world, how do they usually turn out?

whack 10y ago

It's somewhat of a stretch to compare capital income and UBI. The people receiving capital income today are reaping the benefits of their prior income that they had paid taxes for, and chosen to save instead of spend. This is qualitatively different from someone getting a no-strings-attached payment from the government. I'm all in favor of UBI, but this doesn't sound like a valid argument.

chrisbennet 10y ago

"The universal basic income — a cash payment made to every individual in the country — has been critiqued recently by some commentators. Among other things, these writers dislike the fact that a UBI would deliver individuals income in a way that is divorced from working. Such an income arrangement would, it is argued, lead to meaninglessness, social dysfunction, and resentment. One obvious problem with this analysis is that passive income — income divorced from work — already exists. It is called capital income. It flows out to various individuals in society in the form of interest, rents, and dividends. According to Piketty, Saez, and Zucman (PSZ), around 30% of all the income produced in the nation is paid out as capital income. "

drewrv 10y ago

I've met a number of wealthy people in my life who never had to work and I wouldn't wish that life upon my enemies. I don't know how else to phrase it but having to work builds character. That being said, I'm a fan of the idea behind a UBI.

cjlars 10y ago
I wonder how much selection bias is embedded in this (common) sentiment. It takes a certain type of character flaw to want to flaunt your money. I'd imagine there's a silent majority among wealthy heirs that just never bring it up, try to blend in, and are perfectly well-adjusted.
- drewrv 10y ago
  Also possible that they have a sense of superiority that people living off a UBI wouldn't have. Or that an heirs parents were never around because they were too busy. It's why I try not to reason from my own anecdotes and support a UBI despite having this grumpy old man in my head complaining about how needing to work builds character.
- SamBam 10y ago
  Very true. I have coworkers who I only found out years later were wealthy through family money. They worked as hard as anyone else, and no one had any reason to know they were wealthy. I'd love to see studies on this, though.
  - cjlars 10y ago
    Just did some googling on this. For the most part, there doesn't seem to be much research on inheritance & personality disorders, which is odd because 'does money make us happy' is one of the biggest questions in sociology. I did find this paper however, which is full of tangential information: https://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mygsb/faculty/research/pubfiles/2669/Too%20much%20not%20enough.pdf https://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mygsb/faculty/research/pubfile...
- cfreeman 10y ago

Rockslide 10y ago

Discussion from four days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13303420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13303420

aminorex 10y ago

Please don't overlook the more valid point: Simply uniformly distributing a portion of the passive interest on the wealth of the top 1% globally would suffice to eliminate the most brutal poverty worldwide.