7 ms·

On more than one occasion I have lamented the issues with traveling to Iran (as an American). There is so much history there that is fascinating.

buckhx 10y ago
Agreed, I never really was interested in the history of the region until listening to Dan Carlin's latest series on the Assyrian and Persian Empires. Pretty crazy to think of Herodotus seeing ruins of the Assyrian's and viewing it as ancient history himself in his time (~450 BC). Link to the podcast the interested: http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-56-kings-of-kings/ http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-56-kings-of-kings/
- nickik 10y ago
  Dan Carlin is fun to listen to but he is pretty narrative driven and loves certain aspect and themes. If people want to listen to something podcast like, that is more detailed and accurate, I would highly suggest The Great Courses on this subject. Here are the ones that I think are relevant: - The Persian Empire - History of the Ancient World: A Global Perspective - Greek and Persian Wars - Alexander the Great and the Macedonian Empire - Alexander the Great and the Hellenistic Age Link: https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/ https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/ or http://www.thegreatcourses.com/ http://www.thegreatcourses.com/
bbctol 10y ago
The modern-day tensions are frustrating for many reasons. I always feel like Persia is an under-discussed historical civilization in pop culture, and I think that's due to modern perceptions, too much baggage associated with the region. I might be imagining it, but when people talk about the great empires, it's always Rome, Egypt, China, the Mongols... the first Persian empire controlled up to half the world's population at its height, and is one of the really fundamental civilizations of human history.
- Retric 10y ago
  I think your population estimate is far from accurate the Americas had a large population during that time period. Let alone most of Africa, China, etc. One major consideration many of the worlds population centers from that time period are now under the ocean.
  - sampo 10y ago
    > many of the worlds population centers from that time period are now under the ocean Wikipedia lists the Persian Empire from 550 BC to 651 AD. What are the population centers from that time which are now under the ocean?
    - Retric 10y ago
      I was not clear. I don't mean that the sea levels rose during that time period. Rather they had been rising up to 8,000 years ago. Which exaggerates the exponential population growth. Recent estimates put world population around 300 million people in year 0. And then rapidly scale back 10,000 BC. However, estimates put the Aboriginal population at 300-750k before European colonization with a mostly hunter gather lifestyle on mostly marginal land. Which suggests possibly much higher global populations 10,000 years ago, and a higher global population around year 0 for the rest of the world. PS: New estimates also put native Hawaiian population at 700,000 before cook, though this includes some farming. http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/04/18/398578801/it-took-two-centuries-but-the-native-hawaii-ans-has-finally-bounced-back http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/04/18/398578801/...
- amirmansour 10y ago
  I'm Persian, but I received most of my education in the U.S, and I cannot recall the Persian Empire ever getting mentioned in history classes. Literally, everything else around Iran was mentioned. History is written by the victors.
  - akiselev 10y ago
    This really depends on your state and on how textbooks are chosen. My middle school (California pre-CORE) petitioned the State Board of Education and was allowed to use a previously unapproved world history textbook that gave equal coverage to the Persian Empire up to the point we stopped in class. World history in my high school also devoted many chapters to it as did US history, although much less for the latter. (We covered each chapter linearly until we ran out of time in the school year but I dont know if thats what most schools do) For better or worse, state and local governments have a lot of influence on the textbooks and curriculum. Unfortunately cost seems to be the main driving factor for most textbook selections which means that only the bare minimum beyond western historical canon is covered.
macintux 10y ago
I've tried a couple of times to start learning Farsi, in hopes of visiting someday, but laziness wins out every time.
- amirmansour 10y ago
  You don't need to learn Farsi to go there. Many people know enough English words to help you around. Most of the youth were taught some English in high school and college, and many of them can speak fluently and even understand you completely. Plus, the best way to learn Farsi is to be in the environment that speaks it. You'll be surprised how fast it is to pick up. European and Asian tourists are abundant and common place. If they can do it, so can you :)
  - owenversteeg 10y ago
    Hmm. I'm an American/European that just visited Iran and I partly disagree. Traveling around, the vast majority of people I met knew practically no English. I could count the number of other Westerners I saw on one hand. Two of them I saw at Tehran Khomeini as I was arriving; they had just been denied a visa. A lot of younger people understood me decently well, but almost anyone over 25 needed translation. Nobody was near fluent, although their English was very impressive given that they never had a chance to practice it. I encourage everyone I know to visit - it's seriously one of the most beautiful places on Earth, the people are very friendly and the food is amazing - but language will always be a problem, and you will be the only Westerner most places you go. One example of how rare Europeans are is that I had several people come up to me and ask to take a picture with me, or called me "beautiful", and when I was out walking there were several people who semi-discreetly took photos of me. I don't mind, but it all goes to show that Iran is definitely not full of Europeans. The other tourists I saw were Asian, or had Iranian family. And yep, being in Iran is great for learning Farsi. I don't intend to become fluent but I do know maybe 100 words after staying with an Iranian family for a few days. tl;dr Visit Iran, it's amazing, but don't think it's full of Europeans, and plan before you go.
    - amirmansour 10y ago
jobu 10y ago
Can't believe I've never heard of this before. Here's another page with more info: http://www.iranreview.org/content/Documents/The_Red_Snake_The_Great_Wall_of_Gorgan.htm http://www.iranreview.org/content/Documents/The_Red_Snake_Th... The article mentions that parts of it are still visible from the air, but looking at google maps it's difficult to tell the difference between canals and ridges.
- pritianka 10y ago
  Same here! The weird thing is I didn't even receive my education in the US. I studied in India and we covered many world civilizations, including Iran to a certain degree. I guess this really is a forgotten wall.
Ph0X 10y ago
Indeed. I visited Persepolis a few years back during the summer. Mind you, that's a place with 2500 years of history, and there were maybe 4-5 other people there in that giant historic place, visiting? There were only 2 guards covering the whole place, and anyone could just come, break and take a piece and leave (and many do sadly). It's just a sad state of affairs. The Louvre has a few pieces [0] and you can see how much better they are kept than the real place in Iran [1] And that's just one example. Iran is full of history and beautiful places, but we sadly get so little touristic revenue do to how badly kept it all is and our government... [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Immortels_-_dynamosquito.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Immortel... [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/2009-11-24_Persepolis_03.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/2009-11-...
- amirmansour 10y ago
  When I was young kid in Iran, there was a TV show made about the police chasing after a stolen piece of the Persepolis. The thieves were planning to sell it on the black market. I watched the show every night, because I had visited Persepolis a few months earlier during a family vacation. Even at that age (4 or 5), I thought it was strange that there were essentially no guards or apparent supervision. I believe the tomb of Xerxes has a similar vibe. There is going to be more tourism in Iran after the lifting of sanctions from Europeans, so this situation will definitely change for the better.
oh_sigh 10y ago
It isn't very hard to go to Iran as an American. The only thing is you need to travel with a guide at all times, which can run you between $50-$150/day. Added expense? Certainly. But it is quite doable, especially if you consider how cheap everything else is relative to say, vacationing in France or Italy. You can also easily go with a private tour group if that's your thing.
- owenversteeg 10y ago
  Unfortunately, going with a tour guide or a group of Americans completely changes what you see. I am an American and Dutch citizen and elected to travel on my Dutch passport. Some Iranian friends showed me around, and the experience I had was the best of my life - and definitely not something you could get with a group.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

buckhx 10y ago

Agreed, I never really was interested in the history of the region until listening to Dan Carlin's latest series on the Assyrian and Persian Empires. Pretty crazy to think of Herodotus seeing ruins of the Assyrian's and viewing it as ancient history himself in his time (~450 BC). Link to the podcast the interested: http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-56-kings-of-kings/ http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-56-kings-of-kings/

nickik 10y ago
Dan Carlin is fun to listen to but he is pretty narrative driven and loves certain aspect and themes. If people want to listen to something podcast like, that is more detailed and accurate, I would highly suggest The Great Courses on this subject. Here are the ones that I think are relevant: - The Persian Empire - History of the Ancient World: A Global Perspective - Greek and Persian Wars - Alexander the Great and the Macedonian Empire - Alexander the Great and the Hellenistic Age Link: https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/ https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/ or http://www.thegreatcourses.com/ http://www.thegreatcourses.com/

bbctol 10y ago

The modern-day tensions are frustrating for many reasons. I always feel like Persia is an under-discussed historical civilization in pop culture, and I think that's due to modern perceptions, too much baggage associated with the region. I might be imagining it, but when people talk about the great empires, it's always Rome, Egypt, China, the Mongols... the first Persian empire controlled up to half the world's population at its height, and is one of the really fundamental civilizations of human history.

Retric 10y ago
I think your population estimate is far from accurate the Americas had a large population during that time period. Let alone most of Africa, China, etc. One major consideration many of the worlds population centers from that time period are now under the ocean.
- sampo 10y ago
  > many of the worlds population centers from that time period are now under the ocean Wikipedia lists the Persian Empire from 550 BC to 651 AD. What are the population centers from that time which are now under the ocean?
  - Retric 10y ago
    I was not clear. I don't mean that the sea levels rose during that time period. Rather they had been rising up to 8,000 years ago. Which exaggerates the exponential population growth. Recent estimates put world population around 300 million people in year 0. And then rapidly scale back 10,000 BC. However, estimates put the Aboriginal population at 300-750k before European colonization with a mostly hunter gather lifestyle on mostly marginal land. Which suggests possibly much higher global populations 10,000 years ago, and a higher global population around year 0 for the rest of the world. PS: New estimates also put native Hawaiian population at 700,000 before cook, though this includes some farming. http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/04/18/398578801/it-took-two-centuries-but-the-native-hawaii-ans-has-finally-bounced-back http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/04/18/398578801/...
amirmansour 10y ago
I'm Persian, but I received most of my education in the U.S, and I cannot recall the Persian Empire ever getting mentioned in history classes. Literally, everything else around Iran was mentioned. History is written by the victors.
- akiselev 10y ago
  This really depends on your state and on how textbooks are chosen. My middle school (California pre-CORE) petitioned the State Board of Education and was allowed to use a previously unapproved world history textbook that gave equal coverage to the Persian Empire up to the point we stopped in class. World history in my high school also devoted many chapters to it as did US history, although much less for the latter. (We covered each chapter linearly until we ran out of time in the school year but I dont know if thats what most schools do) For better or worse, state and local governments have a lot of influence on the textbooks and curriculum. Unfortunately cost seems to be the main driving factor for most textbook selections which means that only the bare minimum beyond western historical canon is covered.

macintux 10y ago

I've tried a couple of times to start learning Farsi, in hopes of visiting someday, but laziness wins out every time.

amirmansour 10y ago
You don't need to learn Farsi to go there. Many people know enough English words to help you around. Most of the youth were taught some English in high school and college, and many of them can speak fluently and even understand you completely. Plus, the best way to learn Farsi is to be in the environment that speaks it. You'll be surprised how fast it is to pick up. European and Asian tourists are abundant and common place. If they can do it, so can you :)
- owenversteeg 10y ago
  Hmm. I'm an American/European that just visited Iran and I partly disagree. Traveling around, the vast majority of people I met knew practically no English. I could count the number of other Westerners I saw on one hand. Two of them I saw at Tehran Khomeini as I was arriving; they had just been denied a visa. A lot of younger people understood me decently well, but almost anyone over 25 needed translation. Nobody was near fluent, although their English was very impressive given that they never had a chance to practice it. I encourage everyone I know to visit - it's seriously one of the most beautiful places on Earth, the people are very friendly and the food is amazing - but language will always be a problem, and you will be the only Westerner most places you go. One example of how rare Europeans are is that I had several people come up to me and ask to take a picture with me, or called me "beautiful", and when I was out walking there were several people who semi-discreetly took photos of me. I don't mind, but it all goes to show that Iran is definitely not full of Europeans. The other tourists I saw were Asian, or had Iranian family. And yep, being in Iran is great for learning Farsi. I don't intend to become fluent but I do know maybe 100 words after staying with an Iranian family for a few days. tl;dr Visit Iran, it's amazing, but don't think it's full of Europeans, and plan before you go.
  - amirmansour 10y ago

jobu 10y ago

Can't believe I've never heard of this before. Here's another page with more info: http://www.iranreview.org/content/Documents/The_Red_Snake_The_Great_Wall_of_Gorgan.htm http://www.iranreview.org/content/Documents/The_Red_Snake_Th... The article mentions that parts of it are still visible from the air, but looking at google maps it's difficult to tell the difference between canals and ridges.

pritianka 10y ago
Same here! The weird thing is I didn't even receive my education in the US. I studied in India and we covered many world civilizations, including Iran to a certain degree. I guess this really is a forgotten wall.

Ph0X 10y ago

Indeed. I visited Persepolis a few years back during the summer. Mind you, that's a place with 2500 years of history, and there were maybe 4-5 other people there in that giant historic place, visiting? There were only 2 guards covering the whole place, and anyone could just come, break and take a piece and leave (and many do sadly). It's just a sad state of affairs. The Louvre has a few pieces [0] and you can see how much better they are kept than the real place in Iran [1] And that's just one example. Iran is full of history and beautiful places, but we sadly get so little touristic revenue do to how badly kept it all is and our government... [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Immortels_-_dynamosquito.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Immortel... [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/2009-11-24_Persepolis_03.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/2009-11-...

amirmansour 10y ago
When I was young kid in Iran, there was a TV show made about the police chasing after a stolen piece of the Persepolis. The thieves were planning to sell it on the black market. I watched the show every night, because I had visited Persepolis a few months earlier during a family vacation. Even at that age (4 or 5), I thought it was strange that there were essentially no guards or apparent supervision. I believe the tomb of Xerxes has a similar vibe. There is going to be more tourism in Iran after the lifting of sanctions from Europeans, so this situation will definitely change for the better.

oh_sigh 10y ago

It isn't very hard to go to Iran as an American. The only thing is you need to travel with a guide at all times, which can run you between $50-$150/day. Added expense? Certainly. But it is quite doable, especially if you consider how cheap everything else is relative to say, vacationing in France or Italy. You can also easily go with a private tour group if that's your thing.

owenversteeg 10y ago
Unfortunately, going with a tour guide or a group of Americans completely changes what you see. I am an American and Dutch citizen and elected to travel on my Dutch passport. Some Iranian friends showed me around, and the experience I had was the best of my life - and definitely not something you could get with a group.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]