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Interesting. Now you got me thinking more about what things might change with self-driving cars. Will cars offer an "orbiting" mode where they keep driving in

Interesting. Now you got me thinking more about what things might change with self-driving cars. Will cars offer an "orbiting" mode where they keep driving in a circle until you are ready to be picked up. Will stores offer a driving ring where cars can drive around in circles off the main street in the case where no parking slots are available? Will cars be able to drop you off, and park themselves when a space becomes available? Will the cars notify you where they parked, or will they always come to your location? (And what if you are standing in an area that is impossible to drive to...where does the car go?) I can't wait for self-driving cars. This will be a lot of fun to see how the world changes in both the large and small.

erentz 10y ago
Cars moving take up more space that stationary parked cars. What you've stumbled on is actually a concern for transit planners - more traffic because self driving cars are circling without any passengers.
- csydas 10y ago
  Well, I think this is probably a case where a bit of number crunching will save the day - considering a world in which driverless cars are the norm and fully embraced by the city, the coordination system can likely determine based on historical data and also current queue request pressure how many cars to launch into traffic at any given time to satisfy demand for a summon in less than 5 minutes or whatever target they want. When not summoned or being sent to meet demand, the cars return to an enclosure outside the city for maintenance. Admittedly, there is a lot of planning that needs to happen for even a prototype of this to happen, as well as some major cultural shifts, but when it does happen, I think it will run pretty smoothly. The biggest issue in my mind isn't the logistics as much as the cultural attitude that will need to happen - right now everyone seems to assume ownership of driverless cars, but the more reasonable approach seems to be summoned fleets instead. I can envision something like the city owning the control infrastructure and leasing slots to competing companies, or even just competing companies and leaving the city controller out of the picture.
dorfsmay 10y ago
Hopefully enough by-the-trip rental that you don't need to own one, and that they are used by somebody else while you don't need it, so less need for parking. Sort of what we do with airplanes. You never really think of until you need them to be all grounded: http://m.imgur.com/7jGGZaT http://m.imgur.com/7jGGZaT
manicdee 10y ago
"Orbiting" seems like a great way to add unnecessary wear and tear. I imagine an alternative is cars that travel to parking then come and pick you up when summoned. There is also the possibility of having your car work for hire to help you afford to buy a new one sooner :D
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  Orbiting would turn the surrounding streets into a car park too.
sanderjd 10y ago
All of your hypotheticals seem to still assume individually-used cars. This is much nearer term thinking than the real interesting stuff. Cars wouldn't need to circle or park themselves. They would just go pick somebody else up. When you're done, some other car would come pick you up.
- mantas 10y ago
  Many people will prefer to keep individually used cars. Cars is not only transportation, but storage too. From children seats to umbrella to things you bought at previous stop. The random self-driving car is pretty much the same as public transport. Individual cars seem to be still a thing, even though we have buses, taxis etc. Having random car pick you up is not some totally new idea that wasn't tried ever before.
  - sanderjd 10y ago
    It would be new: the price could be much lower, perhaps closer to public transportation, while the privacy and directness of pickup and drop-off would be like taxis. The point about storage and kids is definitely interesting. Seems like potential for business opportunities if we ever find ourselves in this world.
    - mantas 10y ago
      They'd drive quite a lot of junk miles, which is virtually non-existant for public transit. And wouldn't have several passengers either. Taxis don't have economy of scale passengers-wise either, but they try to minimise junk miles a lot. Sometimes event rejecting travels to certain destinations or charging 2x to cover return. I guess bottom line would end up ~ the same as current car sharing services. Cheaper if you want occasional use, but more expensive as daily driver. And availability issues at peak times.
      - sanderjd 10y ago
        I don't follow your logic here. Why would they need to drive more "junk miles" than taxis? It seems to me that there would be quite a bit more opportunities for optimization. How does the bottom line end up about the same as current car sharing services when you have removed one of the largest costs? Availability also seems easier to manage than with a fleet of people driving...
michaelmrose 10y ago
Driving in a circle still isn't free it either costs gas or electricity. When you park your car you are constrained to park it relatively nearby. Logically your car lacking a parking spot at your location will seek one nearby until it has traveled far enough that it is logical for it to turn around and drive back to you. In some cases perhaps it will rejoin the pool of available cars and you will picked up by a different car. Perhaps retailers will be yet more likely to offer to ship selected large or awkward items directly to your home after you have picked them out.
- jessaustin 10y ago
  Perhaps retailers... Yes they'll be happy to pay a premium for delivery trucks that require no drivers. Time-of-day flexibility will enable serving more customers with the same size fleet. Many customers will be more willing to use delivery when they can plan around working hours and don't have to worry about tipping. Service levels won't be subject to mistakes in shift planning.

erentz 10y ago

Cars moving take up more space that stationary parked cars. What you've stumbled on is actually a concern for transit planners - more traffic because self driving cars are circling without any passengers.

csydas 10y ago
Well, I think this is probably a case where a bit of number crunching will save the day - considering a world in which driverless cars are the norm and fully embraced by the city, the coordination system can likely determine based on historical data and also current queue request pressure how many cars to launch into traffic at any given time to satisfy demand for a summon in less than 5 minutes or whatever target they want. When not summoned or being sent to meet demand, the cars return to an enclosure outside the city for maintenance. Admittedly, there is a lot of planning that needs to happen for even a prototype of this to happen, as well as some major cultural shifts, but when it does happen, I think it will run pretty smoothly. The biggest issue in my mind isn't the logistics as much as the cultural attitude that will need to happen - right now everyone seems to assume ownership of driverless cars, but the more reasonable approach seems to be summoned fleets instead. I can envision something like the city owning the control infrastructure and leasing slots to competing companies, or even just competing companies and leaving the city controller out of the picture.

dorfsmay 10y ago

Hopefully enough by-the-trip rental that you don't need to own one, and that they are used by somebody else while you don't need it, so less need for parking. Sort of what we do with airplanes. You never really think of until you need them to be all grounded: http://m.imgur.com/7jGGZaT http://m.imgur.com/7jGGZaT

manicdee 10y ago

"Orbiting" seems like a great way to add unnecessary wear and tear. I imagine an alternative is cars that travel to parking then come and pick you up when summoned. There is also the possibility of having your car work for hire to help you afford to buy a new one sooner :D

bbcbasic 10y ago
Orbiting would turn the surrounding streets into a car park too.

sanderjd 10y ago

All of your hypotheticals seem to still assume individually-used cars. This is much nearer term thinking than the real interesting stuff. Cars wouldn't need to circle or park themselves. They would just go pick somebody else up. When you're done, some other car would come pick you up.

mantas 10y ago
Many people will prefer to keep individually used cars. Cars is not only transportation, but storage too. From children seats to umbrella to things you bought at previous stop. The random self-driving car is pretty much the same as public transport. Individual cars seem to be still a thing, even though we have buses, taxis etc. Having random car pick you up is not some totally new idea that wasn't tried ever before.
- sanderjd 10y ago
  It would be new: the price could be much lower, perhaps closer to public transportation, while the privacy and directness of pickup and drop-off would be like taxis. The point about storage and kids is definitely interesting. Seems like potential for business opportunities if we ever find ourselves in this world.
  - mantas 10y ago
    They'd drive quite a lot of junk miles, which is virtually non-existant for public transit. And wouldn't have several passengers either. Taxis don't have economy of scale passengers-wise either, but they try to minimise junk miles a lot. Sometimes event rejecting travels to certain destinations or charging 2x to cover return. I guess bottom line would end up ~ the same as current car sharing services. Cheaper if you want occasional use, but more expensive as daily driver. And availability issues at peak times.
    - sanderjd 10y ago
      I don't follow your logic here. Why would they need to drive more "junk miles" than taxis? It seems to me that there would be quite a bit more opportunities for optimization. How does the bottom line end up about the same as current car sharing services when you have removed one of the largest costs? Availability also seems easier to manage than with a fleet of people driving...

michaelmrose 10y ago

Driving in a circle still isn't free it either costs gas or electricity. When you park your car you are constrained to park it relatively nearby. Logically your car lacking a parking spot at your location will seek one nearby until it has traveled far enough that it is logical for it to turn around and drive back to you. In some cases perhaps it will rejoin the pool of available cars and you will picked up by a different car. Perhaps retailers will be yet more likely to offer to ship selected large or awkward items directly to your home after you have picked them out.

jessaustin 10y ago
Perhaps retailers... Yes they'll be happy to pay a premium for delivery trucks that require no drivers. Time-of-day flexibility will enable serving more customers with the same size fleet. Many customers will be more willing to use delivery when they can plan around working hours and don't have to worry about tipping. Service levels won't be subject to mistakes in shift planning.