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So you think the government will go after the google employee because they are going public to support Google? Have you heard any Google Chinese employee "repor

So you think the government will go after the google employee because they are going public to support Google? Have you heard any Google Chinese employee "reportedly" supporting the employer and bashing Chinese government, even those living in US? Do you know the full story of the 40 people in jail for criticizing the government? Do you know the population in China? Do you know how many people are jailed in US because of Patriot Act, with no reason and no trial?

stingraycharles 16y ago
Those points do not refute the argument that the Chinese government might go after the employees, and Google is being careful with that. Google's position in China is sensitive given the things that happened there in the past months, and I can imagine they don't want to fuel the fire any more than necessary.
jrockway 16y ago
Do you know how many people are jailed in US because of Patriot Act, with no reason and no trial? People like to bring this up, and I have a few things to say about it. 1) Just because the US does something, doesn't mean it's OK. We nuked fucking Japan. Doesn't make nuclear war OK. 2) The people held by the US are not citizens, they are soldiers picked up in war zones and held outside the US. Completely unacceptable? Yes. Violation of international law? Hopefully. But this is not what's going on in China. Normal citizens, with full rights under the law, are being openly convicted and suffering harsh penalties for speaking out against the government. If the US government did what the Chinese government did, in this narrow category, the government officials would be the ones in prison. The US is far from perfect, but it is pretty good.
ycseattle 16y ago
For some reason I cannot reply your comment, maybe because my karma is too low now. "Normal citizens, with full rights under the law, are being openly convicted and suffering harsh penalties for speaking out against the government." I would argue, in most cases, they are not normal citizens, even though in western media, they are portrait as freedom fighter. I can even tell you how to find information to prove this point: check out the China Study program in John Hopkins University (the top one in US), and they will tell you the conclusion in political science field is the freedom fighters from the Tiananman Square in 1989 are extremists. I don't think the reporters will go out and interview those political scientists. There are other good China Study program you can get academic opinions from, including Univ. of Iowa (another top 1), UW is good as well. I am not arguing with you that there is no human right issue in China. There are, but the problem is presented out of the context and in many cases with false information. I am only suggesting that people do more firsthand investigation and talk to Chinese for some full stories, but looks like I am getting enough down-votes now.
- TeHCrAzY 16y ago
  FYI, there is some throttling re. frequency of replies, the reply link wont show up (seems to give people time to think before replying :) )
tsally 16y ago
I do know the full story actually. I'll summarize. In 2007 Guo Quan wrote a letter to the Chinese leadership asking for political reform, while peacefully founding an opposition party called the China New Democracy Party. Guo's writings were blacked out online and his name blacklisted from search. Guo was given a 10 year jail sentence in 2009 after being convicted under the charge "subversion of state power". Guo has 9.5 years of his jail sentence left. If you have credible evidence that Guo was a violent, extremist terrorist funded by the West, I'd love to see it.

stingraycharles 16y ago

Those points do not refute the argument that the Chinese government might go after the employees, and Google is being careful with that. Google's position in China is sensitive given the things that happened there in the past months, and I can imagine they don't want to fuel the fire any more than necessary.

jrockway 16y ago

Do you know how many people are jailed in US because of Patriot Act, with no reason and no trial? People like to bring this up, and I have a few things to say about it. 1) Just because the US does something, doesn't mean it's OK. We nuked fucking Japan. Doesn't make nuclear war OK. 2) The people held by the US are not citizens, they are soldiers picked up in war zones and held outside the US. Completely unacceptable? Yes. Violation of international law? Hopefully. But this is not what's going on in China. Normal citizens, with full rights under the law, are being openly convicted and suffering harsh penalties for speaking out against the government. If the US government did what the Chinese government did, in this narrow category, the government officials would be the ones in prison. The US is far from perfect, but it is pretty good.

ycseattle 16y ago

For some reason I cannot reply your comment, maybe because my karma is too low now. "Normal citizens, with full rights under the law, are being openly convicted and suffering harsh penalties for speaking out against the government." I would argue, in most cases, they are not normal citizens, even though in western media, they are portrait as freedom fighter. I can even tell you how to find information to prove this point: check out the China Study program in John Hopkins University (the top one in US), and they will tell you the conclusion in political science field is the freedom fighters from the Tiananman Square in 1989 are extremists. I don't think the reporters will go out and interview those political scientists. There are other good China Study program you can get academic opinions from, including Univ. of Iowa (another top 1), UW is good as well. I am not arguing with you that there is no human right issue in China. There are, but the problem is presented out of the context and in many cases with false information. I am only suggesting that people do more firsthand investigation and talk to Chinese for some full stories, but looks like I am getting enough down-votes now.

TeHCrAzY 16y ago
FYI, there is some throttling re. frequency of replies, the reply link wont show up (seems to give people time to think before replying :) )

tsally 16y ago

I do know the full story actually. I'll summarize. In 2007 Guo Quan wrote a letter to the Chinese leadership asking for political reform, while peacefully founding an opposition party called the China New Democracy Party. Guo's writings were blacked out online and his name blacklisted from search. Guo was given a 10 year jail sentence in 2009 after being convicted under the charge "subversion of state power". Guo has 9.5 years of his jail sentence left. If you have credible evidence that Guo was a violent, extremist terrorist funded by the West, I'd love to see it.