8 ms·

FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

249 points by xkiwi 10y ago

celticninja 10y ago
The worst thing about this is that it will turn out that the developers involvement will be relatively innocuous in the grand scheme of things, hence the lack of any real urgency from the FBI, but it is terrifying for both the developer and as a citizen that he FBI seem to be inept and/or deliberately making it so difficult to speak with someone who it would appear they think can assist them.
teh_klev 10y ago
Original source: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11631329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11631329
deadtofu 10y ago
Could they be trying to serve her?
- jonnybgood 10y ago
  If they were, they wouldn't make a phone call first. They would just do it.
mcherm 10y ago
It sounds like her concern is that they might show her a magic piece of paper which, once you've seen it, requires you to do certain things and prohibits you from ever talking about it to anyone.[1] Magic pieces of paper like that really shouldn't be a part of our legal system. [1] https://epic.org/privacy/nsl/ https://epic.org/privacy/nsl/
- setra 10y ago
  They can email those to you.
  - ithkuil 10y ago
    if emailed, what prevents you from leaking it (along with other recent content of your email inbox) claiming somebody hacked your email ?
    - modoc 10y ago
      Fear of prison?
      - maze-le 10y ago
        You can get into prison because someone hacked your email account?
        modoc 10y ago
        If they dig into it and decide that you did it yourself, as the parent suggested, then yes, you would have a serious risk of prison time for willfully violating the NSL.
        PeterisP 10y ago
        Did someone hack your email account? You would expect such a claims to be severely scrutinied (including seizing all involved hardware for forensic analysis), and if you'd be making a false claim while having disseminated the information yourself, that would be a crime by itself in this scenario.
    - MacsHeadroom 10y ago
      More importantly, what prevents half a dozen email servers from leaking it all over the place? The notion that an NSL would be sent over internet postcard is laughable, whether or not it's true.
  - 10y ago
golergka 10y ago
The original story told about a couple of polite phonecalls where they have requested to talk with her. How does it get described as "harassment"? Of course, she also added a lot of paranoid speculation to her original blog post, but there's not a single confirmation of her fears so far, not even a hint.
- Lawtonfogle 10y ago
  >The original story told about a couple of polite phonecalls where they have requested to talk with her. How does it get described as "harassment"? As soon as they continued after the very first 'no' it becomes harassment. Imagine this was a work setting, the FBI was a coworker of this individual, and they asked for a date. After the very first "no, please don't bring it up again" it becomes harassment.
  - unlinker 10y ago
    Only that this is not a sexual setting and the fact it is a "she" changes nothing in this context.
    - penagwin 10y ago
      The point still stands. If a person tells you to stop an action they find uncomfortable for whatever reason in any way, no matter their gender, race, etc. It becomes harassment. The FBI is a government organization that you could argue has the job of doing this, however they fail to ever state why they require her assistance (and they seem kinda rude to me).
      - pc86 10y ago
        > *If a person tells you to stop an action they find uncomfortable for whatever reason in any way ... it becomes harassment." I don't want to get too far off topic, but this is blatantly false, especially as far as law enforcement is concerned.
        10y ago
0091810911 10y ago
"I got absolutely no work done." That's the tactics they use (don't ask how I know that). Be strong and welcome to Germany!
- chinathrow 10y ago
  No idea why you get downvoted for this. There is a german word for it - 'Zersetzung'. It was used by Stasi in former divided Germany and for sure has been used in recent years against other folks of the Tor community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
  - ryanlol 10y ago
    >and for sure has been used in recent years against other folks of the Tor community. Examples? Edit: Not really sure why asking for examples gets downvotes. Google news search definitely didn't turn up anything but this story.
    - chinathrow 10y ago
      http://www.dw.com/en/snowden-ally-appelbaum-claims-his-berlin-apartment-was-invaded/a-17315069 http://www.dw.com/en/snowden-ally-appelbaum-claims-his-berli...
      - maze-le 10y ago
        What really worries me about this story is the following question: Are german agencies involved in this? I mean, assume the break ins are real, can the FBI operate in a foreign country without consent? At least they should know it and did nothing to stop it... Or am I msitaken here somewhere?
        MacsHeadroom 10y ago
        >can the FBI operate in a foreign country What do you think embassies are for? It seems likely that Germany was cooperative, at the least. But they needn't be. These are spies we're talking about, afterall.
warmblood 10y ago
This is terrorism. Given what we all know based on past events about how the FBI conducts their activities, there is no way any reasonably aware citizen can conduct their life normally after such an encounter. The last discussion thread on this topic had more than a few people complaining that Isis (the given name of the developer in the article) is overreacting and paranoid, which is a saddening response to see. It exposes the privileges and unfortunate circumstances citizens find themselves in because these agencies refuse to prosecute their anti-terror investigations in well-thought out ways, instead pursuing facile leads without regard to the external effects they cause. We've even seen evidence that these agencies deliberately manipulate otherwise innocent people into behavior that implicates them in their "terror suspect" criteria, so it's hard to believe that anyone in this situation could be somehow too cautious.
- maze-le 10y ago
  I wouldn't use the word 'terrorism'. Its usage is already inflated beyond reason... I'd rather call it what it is: intimidation / harrasment.
  - pdkl95 10y ago
    > intimidation / harrasment The FBI used to call that "COINTELPRO".
  - warmblood 10y ago
    That's fair. I'm just really frustrated by how long this has been going on and the institutional resistance to addressing it for the better.
- appleflaxen 10y ago
  It /is/ terrorism, but the FBI is not the agent of terror. Rather, they are reacting to terrorist boogeymen in the shadows, exactly how the terrorists want them to. Terrorism is successful when our society becomes more of an authoritarian police state.
  - 10y ago
draw_down 10y ago
Sounds like they have no god damn idea what they're doing. But of course, frightening nonetheless.
glasz 10y ago
dear mr/ms. fuck bloody off. - sincerely, me
nxzero 10y ago
Curious how many people on HN have had contact with the FBI in the past year?
- rbanffy 10y ago
  One colleague in my organisation used to work for them. ;-)
- woodman 10y ago
  It is hard to say for a lot of reasons, like if you'd consider informants with explicit direction from the FBI as "FBI". Also, while living in DC many years ago, I was surprised by the number of homeless people I saw with Blackberrys - until I learned about the way FBI surveillance is conducted there.
appleflaxen 10y ago
I wish the FBI agents who perform these kinds of actions were as introspective as Snowden. Once you define your team as "the good guys", you can do all kinds of morally objectionable things to the other side. "the ends justify the means" at that point
cptskippy 10y ago
She lost my support at vegan gluten-free brownies. She's clearly a monster. But seriously, this really stinks. If talking to the FBI wasn't going to have negative consequences for her then why would they choose to approach her like that? The whole attitude by law enforcement that "anyone who doesn't 100% cooperate with us on our terms is an enemy and should be treated as such" really doesn't foster cooperation but it does foster fear and resentment. I think the whole Apple/iPhone debacle demonstrates that perfectly. It's gotten to the point that businesses are finding that they're in a better position if they lock themselves out of their own data and tell law enforcement to fk off because their hands are tied. It's ironic because this non-cooperative behavior is a direct result of the abusive and hostile tactics law enforcement use against everyone.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  The part about "meeting her on the street" is particularly slimy. Declining to pass questions through a lawyer is shady, but asking a person to confirm their lawyer's identity as a trap to question them is bizarre. The whole thing reads like its either an agency involved in something unethical, or an agency so far removed from decent behavior that they no longer notice when they're menacing innocents.
  - kordless 10y ago
    These are the effects of suppressing causality. When a person or group believes the knowledge of their actions needs to be suppressed to increase the performance metrics of their actions, they literally become insane. No government has the right to withhold information beyond a clear and reasonable timeframe. 3 months seems reasonable. 1 year is out of the question.
  - joezydeco 10y ago
    It sounds more like a subtle way to say "we'll meet you on the street, after a SWAT team drags you out of bed at 2:00AM"
    - at-fates-hands 10y ago
grecy 10y ago
>“But… if we happen to run into her on the street, we’re gonna be asking her some questions without you present.” Impressive for a LEO to state out loud he doesn't care about rights and due process. Like maybe he thinks he's above the law.
- at-fates-hands 10y ago
  This is a classic psyops move on their part. Get the person thinking they're not safe anywhere, so they stop going out, stop being mobile and stick to a more confined area. Once they've determined where she is, it makes it a lot easier to get in contact with her. If she's smart, she start moving more frequently, and travel in states where they don't have field offices, avoid air travel and create a constantly moving target for the FBI officers trying to nail her down.
  - Kristine1975 10y ago
    >If she's smart, she start moving more frequently... I don't think that's practical. It would cause her a lot of stress (not to mention cost quite some money) and sooner or later wear her out. It also means that the FBI has reached their goal of intimidating her, since she is changing her behavior because of them (assuming that is their goal of course).
  - grecy 10y ago
    Wow, what a place to live in. Regular citizens not charged with any crime having to keep moving to hide from LEO.
hodwik 10y ago
"If they ask for information on anyone else, or think I witnessed or committed some crime: I solemnly invoke my Miranda rights. No joking. No snark. No fucking around. Everyone knows you don’t talk to the police." I'd just like to point out that 1984 and X-Files were works of fiction. I know you consumed them at a really impressionable age, and it was really exciting to think about, but this subculture's complete credulity with the dystopian anti-LEO narrative is making it really hard for us to have any meaningful impact on the world.
- bazzargh 10y ago
  You'd get the same advice if you spoke to a lawyer. Here's one: https://popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/ https://popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/ One of the most consistent messages I offer here is about interactions with law enforcement, and can be expressed in two words — shut up
- dang 10y ago
  > I know you consumed them at a really impressionable age, and it was really exciting to think about, but Please keep this sort of personal snark out of HN comments. It's uncivil and unsubstantive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
  - hodwik 10y ago
    How are conservatives on HN supposed to talk about what we perceive as psychological hangups and failings of our subculture, if you're going to simply cast them as snark/unsubstantive when you don't agree with them? It's not like this sort of unpleasant psychological characterization is out of the norm on HN, it's just usually applied to the other side.
zekevermillion 10y ago
The problem is the attitude that the NSL is just another "tool" in the FBI's toolbox, to be used as aggressively as can be in the pursuit of criminals. There is no effective check or balance against this -- we are forced to rely on the investigators to use their discretion, knowing that any challenge to such a warrantless request has about a zero % chance of being successful before the FISA court. I would like to see an activist attempt to challenge such an order, or even refuse to cooperate in an NSL where the FBI is acting outside of its legislative and Constitutional authority. However, the overwhelming incentive in any such situation is to cooperate. And from what I have read, even if the FBI is acting illegally, the subject of the investigation aided by the NSL may still be a fairly loathsome criminal -- so, you have to be quite a principled activist to risk prison time to make a civil rights statement, when this is directly going to benefit a badguy in the specific instance.
tobltobs 10y ago
This is like the SA treated people at the beginning. They knew they did not have any legal foundation for their harrasments, but that they would never hold accountable for that. After some time without uprising against that the SA was replaced by the SS.
hackuser 10y ago
1) Imagine the position of people who can't afford a lawyer, don't work for the EFF and know their rights, can't easily move to anothher country, and don't have a platform from which to publicly tell their story. 2) Imagine this power in the hands of a President with fascistic tendancies.
tzaman 10y ago
Why does everyone, including Ms. Lovecruft conclude that something is horribly wrong and that FBI wanting to speak with them means they are in deep shit? I'm by no means defending them, but to me, the whole (original) post looks overly paranoid. I'm not an American, you can speak with Police freely here in Slovenia, so maybe I understand things wrong?
- MacsHeadroom 10y ago
  For a developer of a tool frequently used to conceal "terrorism", this amount of paranoia seems healthy. Also, no you cannot "speak with police freely" in the US. Anything you say to an officer of the law can be, and it should be assumed that it will be, used to incriminate you. To make matters worse, you can be forced to give up your right to self-incrimination by being legally compelled to divulge information which incriminates you. In general one should never speak to police in the US. Not even as the whiteness to a crime. For a great overview of the seriousness of why one should never talk to US police, view this lecture by a professor and former criminal defense attorney: http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc Incidentially, the American Civil Liberties Union of attorneys (ACLU) has created a series of mobile apps to record police encounters because of their tendency to be problematic for citizens. For example, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.aclu.mobile.justice.ca https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.aclu.mobil...
homero 10y ago
It's plausible it's because of her name Isis and some agent thinks she's Isis
jeffdavis 10y ago
This didn't really register with me as tyrrany. What did the FBI actually do to her? Going around a lawyer is a good way to lose a case against her, so maybe they weren't trying to make a case against her. Maybe they actually had some real questions that involved her expertise or knowledge she might have had.

249 points by xkiwi 10y ago

The worst thing about this is that it will turn out that the developers involvement will be relatively innocuous in the grand scheme of things, hence the lack of any real urgency from the FBI, but it is terrifying for both the developer and as a citizen that he FBI seem to be inept and/or deliberately making it so difficult to speak with someone who it would appear they think can assist them.

teh_klev 10y ago

Original source: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11631329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11631329

deadtofu 10y ago

Could they be trying to serve her?

jonnybgood 10y ago
If they were, they wouldn't make a phone call first. They would just do it.

mcherm 10y ago

It sounds like her concern is that they might show her a magic piece of paper which, once you've seen it, requires you to do certain things and prohibits you from ever talking about it to anyone.[1] Magic pieces of paper like that really shouldn't be a part of our legal system. [1] https://epic.org/privacy/nsl/ https://epic.org/privacy/nsl/

setra 10y ago
They can email those to you.
- ithkuil 10y ago
  if emailed, what prevents you from leaking it (along with other recent content of your email inbox) claiming somebody hacked your email ?
  - modoc 10y ago
    Fear of prison?
    - maze-le 10y ago
      You can get into prison because someone hacked your email account?
      - modoc 10y ago
        If they dig into it and decide that you did it yourself, as the parent suggested, then yes, you would have a serious risk of prison time for willfully violating the NSL.
      - PeterisP 10y ago
        Did someone hack your email account? You would expect such a claims to be severely scrutinied (including seizing all involved hardware for forensic analysis), and if you'd be making a false claim while having disseminated the information yourself, that would be a crime by itself in this scenario.
  - MacsHeadroom 10y ago
    More importantly, what prevents half a dozen email servers from leaking it all over the place? The notion that an NSL would be sent over internet postcard is laughable, whether or not it's true.
- 10y ago

golergka 10y ago

The original story told about a couple of polite phonecalls where they have requested to talk with her. How does it get described as "harassment"? Of course, she also added a lot of paranoid speculation to her original blog post, but there's not a single confirmation of her fears so far, not even a hint.

Lawtonfogle 10y ago
>The original story told about a couple of polite phonecalls where they have requested to talk with her. How does it get described as "harassment"? As soon as they continued after the very first 'no' it becomes harassment. Imagine this was a work setting, the FBI was a coworker of this individual, and they asked for a date. After the very first "no, please don't bring it up again" it becomes harassment.
- unlinker 10y ago
  Only that this is not a sexual setting and the fact it is a "she" changes nothing in this context.
  - penagwin 10y ago
    The point still stands. If a person tells you to stop an action they find uncomfortable for whatever reason in any way, no matter their gender, race, etc. It becomes harassment. The FBI is a government organization that you could argue has the job of doing this, however they fail to ever state why they require her assistance (and they seem kinda rude to me).
    - pc86 10y ago
      > *If a person tells you to stop an action they find uncomfortable for whatever reason in any way ... it becomes harassment." I don't want to get too far off topic, but this is blatantly false, especially as far as law enforcement is concerned.
      - 10y ago

0091810911 10y ago

"I got absolutely no work done." That's the tactics they use (don't ask how I know that). Be strong and welcome to Germany!

chinathrow 10y ago
No idea why you get downvoted for this. There is a german word for it - 'Zersetzung'. It was used by Stasi in former divided Germany and for sure has been used in recent years against other folks of the Tor community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
- ryanlol 10y ago
  >and for sure has been used in recent years against other folks of the Tor community. Examples? Edit: Not really sure why asking for examples gets downvotes. Google news search definitely didn't turn up anything but this story.
  - chinathrow 10y ago
    http://www.dw.com/en/snowden-ally-appelbaum-claims-his-berlin-apartment-was-invaded/a-17315069 http://www.dw.com/en/snowden-ally-appelbaum-claims-his-berli...
    - maze-le 10y ago
      What really worries me about this story is the following question: Are german agencies involved in this? I mean, assume the break ins are real, can the FBI operate in a foreign country without consent? At least they should know it and did nothing to stop it... Or am I msitaken here somewhere?
      - MacsHeadroom 10y ago
        >can the FBI operate in a foreign country What do you think embassies are for? It seems likely that Germany was cooperative, at the least. But they needn't be. These are spies we're talking about, afterall.

warmblood 10y ago

This is terrorism. Given what we all know based on past events about how the FBI conducts their activities, there is no way any reasonably aware citizen can conduct their life normally after such an encounter. The last discussion thread on this topic had more than a few people complaining that Isis (the given name of the developer in the article) is overreacting and paranoid, which is a saddening response to see. It exposes the privileges and unfortunate circumstances citizens find themselves in because these agencies refuse to prosecute their anti-terror investigations in well-thought out ways, instead pursuing facile leads without regard to the external effects they cause. We've even seen evidence that these agencies deliberately manipulate otherwise innocent people into behavior that implicates them in their "terror suspect" criteria, so it's hard to believe that anyone in this situation could be somehow too cautious.

maze-le 10y ago
I wouldn't use the word 'terrorism'. Its usage is already inflated beyond reason... I'd rather call it what it is: intimidation / harrasment.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  > intimidation / harrasment The FBI used to call that "COINTELPRO".
- warmblood 10y ago
  That's fair. I'm just really frustrated by how long this has been going on and the institutional resistance to addressing it for the better.
appleflaxen 10y ago
It /is/ terrorism, but the FBI is not the agent of terror. Rather, they are reacting to terrorist boogeymen in the shadows, exactly how the terrorists want them to. Terrorism is successful when our society becomes more of an authoritarian police state.
- 10y ago

draw_down 10y ago

Sounds like they have no god damn idea what they're doing. But of course, frightening nonetheless.

glasz 10y ago

dear mr/ms. fuck bloody off. - sincerely, me

nxzero 10y ago

Curious how many people on HN have had contact with the FBI in the past year?

rbanffy 10y ago
One colleague in my organisation used to work for them. ;-)
woodman 10y ago
It is hard to say for a lot of reasons, like if you'd consider informants with explicit direction from the FBI as "FBI". Also, while living in DC many years ago, I was surprised by the number of homeless people I saw with Blackberrys - until I learned about the way FBI surveillance is conducted there.

appleflaxen 10y ago

I wish the FBI agents who perform these kinds of actions were as introspective as Snowden. Once you define your team as "the good guys", you can do all kinds of morally objectionable things to the other side. "the ends justify the means" at that point

cptskippy 10y ago

She lost my support at vegan gluten-free brownies. She's clearly a monster. But seriously, this really stinks. If talking to the FBI wasn't going to have negative consequences for her then why would they choose to approach her like that? The whole attitude by law enforcement that "anyone who doesn't 100% cooperate with us on our terms is an enemy and should be treated as such" really doesn't foster cooperation but it does foster fear and resentment. I think the whole Apple/iPhone debacle demonstrates that perfectly. It's gotten to the point that businesses are finding that they're in a better position if they lock themselves out of their own data and tell law enforcement to fk off because their hands are tied. It's ironic because this non-cooperative behavior is a direct result of the abusive and hostile tactics law enforcement use against everyone.

Bartweiss 10y ago
The part about "meeting her on the street" is particularly slimy. Declining to pass questions through a lawyer is shady, but asking a person to confirm their lawyer's identity as a trap to question them is bizarre. The whole thing reads like its either an agency involved in something unethical, or an agency so far removed from decent behavior that they no longer notice when they're menacing innocents.
- kordless 10y ago
  These are the effects of suppressing causality. When a person or group believes the knowledge of their actions needs to be suppressed to increase the performance metrics of their actions, they literally become insane. No government has the right to withhold information beyond a clear and reasonable timeframe. 3 months seems reasonable. 1 year is out of the question.
- joezydeco 10y ago
  It sounds more like a subtle way to say "we'll meet you on the street, after a SWAT team drags you out of bed at 2:00AM"
  - at-fates-hands 10y ago

grecy 10y ago

>“But… if we happen to run into her on the street, we’re gonna be asking her some questions without you present.” Impressive for a LEO to state out loud he doesn't care about rights and due process. Like maybe he thinks he's above the law.

at-fates-hands 10y ago
This is a classic psyops move on their part. Get the person thinking they're not safe anywhere, so they stop going out, stop being mobile and stick to a more confined area. Once they've determined where she is, it makes it a lot easier to get in contact with her. If she's smart, she start moving more frequently, and travel in states where they don't have field offices, avoid air travel and create a constantly moving target for the FBI officers trying to nail her down.
- Kristine1975 10y ago
  >If she's smart, she start moving more frequently... I don't think that's practical. It would cause her a lot of stress (not to mention cost quite some money) and sooner or later wear her out. It also means that the FBI has reached their goal of intimidating her, since she is changing her behavior because of them (assuming that is their goal of course).
- grecy 10y ago
  Wow, what a place to live in. Regular citizens not charged with any crime having to keep moving to hide from LEO.

hodwik 10y ago

"If they ask for information on anyone else, or think I witnessed or committed some crime: I solemnly invoke my Miranda rights. No joking. No snark. No fucking around. Everyone knows you don’t talk to the police." I'd just like to point out that 1984 and X-Files were works of fiction. I know you consumed them at a really impressionable age, and it was really exciting to think about, but this subculture's complete credulity with the dystopian anti-LEO narrative is making it really hard for us to have any meaningful impact on the world.

bazzargh 10y ago
You'd get the same advice if you spoke to a lawyer. Here's one: https://popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/ https://popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/ One of the most consistent messages I offer here is about interactions with law enforcement, and can be expressed in two words — shut up
dang 10y ago
> I know you consumed them at a really impressionable age, and it was really exciting to think about, but Please keep this sort of personal snark out of HN comments. It's uncivil and unsubstantive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- hodwik 10y ago
  How are conservatives on HN supposed to talk about what we perceive as psychological hangups and failings of our subculture, if you're going to simply cast them as snark/unsubstantive when you don't agree with them? It's not like this sort of unpleasant psychological characterization is out of the norm on HN, it's just usually applied to the other side.

zekevermillion 10y ago

The problem is the attitude that the NSL is just another "tool" in the FBI's toolbox, to be used as aggressively as can be in the pursuit of criminals. There is no effective check or balance against this -- we are forced to rely on the investigators to use their discretion, knowing that any challenge to such a warrantless request has about a zero % chance of being successful before the FISA court. I would like to see an activist attempt to challenge such an order, or even refuse to cooperate in an NSL where the FBI is acting outside of its legislative and Constitutional authority. However, the overwhelming incentive in any such situation is to cooperate. And from what I have read, even if the FBI is acting illegally, the subject of the investigation aided by the NSL may still be a fairly loathsome criminal -- so, you have to be quite a principled activist to risk prison time to make a civil rights statement, when this is directly going to benefit a badguy in the specific instance.

tobltobs 10y ago

This is like the SA treated people at the beginning. They knew they did not have any legal foundation for their harrasments, but that they would never hold accountable for that. After some time without uprising against that the SA was replaced by the SS.

hackuser 10y ago

1) Imagine the position of people who can't afford a lawyer, don't work for the EFF and know their rights, can't easily move to anothher country, and don't have a platform from which to publicly tell their story. 2) Imagine this power in the hands of a President with fascistic tendancies.

tzaman 10y ago

Why does everyone, including Ms. Lovecruft conclude that something is horribly wrong and that FBI wanting to speak with them means they are in deep shit? I'm by no means defending them, but to me, the whole (original) post looks overly paranoid. I'm not an American, you can speak with Police freely here in Slovenia, so maybe I understand things wrong?

MacsHeadroom 10y ago
For a developer of a tool frequently used to conceal "terrorism", this amount of paranoia seems healthy. Also, no you cannot "speak with police freely" in the US. Anything you say to an officer of the law can be, and it should be assumed that it will be, used to incriminate you. To make matters worse, you can be forced to give up your right to self-incrimination by being legally compelled to divulge information which incriminates you. In general one should never speak to police in the US. Not even as the whiteness to a crime. For a great overview of the seriousness of why one should never talk to US police, view this lecture by a professor and former criminal defense attorney: http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc Incidentially, the American Civil Liberties Union of attorneys (ACLU) has created a series of mobile apps to record police encounters because of their tendency to be problematic for citizens. For example, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.aclu.mobile.justice.ca https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.aclu.mobil...

homero 10y ago

It's plausible it's because of her name Isis and some agent thinks she's Isis

jeffdavis 10y ago

This didn't really register with me as tyrrany. What did the FBI actually do to her? Going around a lawyer is a good way to lose a case against her, so maybe they weren't trying to make a case against her. Maybe they actually had some real questions that involved her expertise or knowledge she might have had.