5 ms·

More computers are being sold than ever before. The market is absolutely saturated with computing devices. And aside from the intense competition Intel is facin

More computers are being sold than ever before. The market is absolutely saturated with computing devices. And aside from the intense competition Intel is facing, they're suffering the same issue that the GPU makers face -- I once upgraded yearly because the gains made it worthwhile. Now I upgrade pretty much only when something fails. It is absolutely picking a narrative.

ranci 10y ago
Is half of college graduates being unemployed or working a min wage job picking a narrative too? Is pointing out that wages are completely stagnant and not rising picking a narrative too? What information would you need to receive to admit the economy is not healthy?
- pmalynin 10y ago
  Yes, don't go studying 17th Romantic Literature expecting a job.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    Romanticism is a 19th century thing.
    - maaku 10y ago
      Obviously that's not what he studied in college.
    - eru 10y ago
      Might be the joke?
      - Ericson2314 10y ago
        Nah, that would be too clever.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ranci 10y ago
    I said 50% of graduates are min wage or unemployed. Not the 1% who majored in romantic literature. You also didn't address the fact that wages paid to employees are completely stagnant.
    - pmalynin 10y ago
      I think the point went over your head. It is not the systems fault that a person that chooses to graduate in a non marketable field does not have a job, e.g. a person who graduates in Romantic Literature. Everyone who graduated cs that I know has no trouble finding a job. One that is not at McBurger.
- cik2e 10y ago
  Where are you getting this 50% number from? http://www.epi.org/publication/the-class-of-2015/ http://www.epi.org/publication/the-class-of-2015/ For young college graduates, the unemployment rate is currently 7.2 percent (compared with 5.5 percent in 2007), and the underemployment rate is 14.9 percent (compared with 9.6 percent in 2007).
fokov 10y ago
Anecdote, I was an avid gamer that would upgrade whenever the price/performance was good enough for my budget. However, I bought almost top tier stuff back in 2008 and haven't upgraded the core of my system since. I don't game like I used to, but it still does everything I need it to do. I used to do yearly-ish new builds as well.
- noir_lord 10y ago
  Me as well, I built an i5-2500K system backend 2010(ish), it's still my main home desktop, 32GB RAM and an SSD and it's as fast as the machine at work that is two generations newer (or more correct it's imperceptibly slower). Things have really levelled out for average loads even developer loads (mostly do web dev, run vagrant machines that kind of thing). I can't see me upgrading til this thing dies tbh.
  - tostitos1979 10y ago
    What you folks are saying is mostly true. VR and 4K are the drivers for a whole new compute cycle in the home. I think the current core counts for Xeon are good enough for cloud (by this I mean that I think CPU isn't the bottleneck for the average EC2, Google Compute, Azure instance). Any one care to comment?
    - noir_lord 10y ago
      In the sense of VR/4K the CPU is way less important than the GPU and we still have some headroom on those even with existing process, what will be interesting is when everyone else's process catches up with where Intel is now, they've generally stayed out in front of everyone else for a long time (except AMD for a spell). I'm really looking forwards to VR if it catches on though, having an insanely high resolution headset so I can dump multiple monitors for programming is a big win, combine that with something that has the portability/form factor of a MS Book/Macbook Pro and you'd be able to program as capably from a hotel room as at your desk at home/work. That would be the biggest shift in my work habits since I went from Windows to Linux in the late 90's. Also I think once everyone can get down to the same size as intel we might start seeing more exotic architectures, Intel has often won with the "with enough thrust a brick will fly" approach to engineering, it doesn't matter if your chip is clock for clock more efficient if Intel is operating at a level where they can put 5 times as many transistors down in the same unit area and ramp the clock speed way up.
tomc1985 10y ago
Maybe they should adjust their business to account for this new cycle of usage, and not fight it
- johntb86 10y ago
  That's why they're cutting 11% of their workforce.
  - tostitos1979 10y ago
    I must say, I'm surprised by how much their workforce swelled. Why did their workforce rise so much after 2009? Was this in the Bay area? Did this rise bring in additional revenue/create new business lines?
    - scholia 10y ago
      One of the things mentioned in the story is that the "period of [staff] growth includes its two largest acquisitions, McAfee in 2011 and Altera last year". I'd assume these acquisitions added to revenues.....
CydeWeys 10y ago
Intel screwed up and didn't become a major player in the mobile market. They could have, because they are still the world's best chip maker, but they didn't. The mobile market is experiencing the most growth and also the shortest product lifetimes. I still get a new phone every 1-2 years because the upgrades are worth it, but my laptop needs upgrades less often, and my desktop less often than that. Mobile phone processors today are where desktop processors were a decade and a half ago in terms of growth potential.
- majewsky 10y ago
  > I still get a new phone every 1-2 years because the upgrades are worth it Really? About the only reason why I'm getting a new phone every so often is when the old one stops being updated. (My Nexus 4 lasted 3 years, and it would have done another year.) Planned obsolescence, if you want.
  - revelation 10y ago
    I'm still using my Nexus 4, that thing has pretty much already set the "good enough" bar we've come to reference for why PC sales are tanking. The only problem is a lack of security updates, but we can't blame the hardware for that. Incidentally I had a HTC Desire HD before and that became unusable on newer versions, as is the Nexus 7 now. These two clearly didn't have the good enough hardware specs.
  - CydeWeys 10y ago
    The phone market is still rapidly evolving. For instance, I have a Nexus 5X right now. The fingerprint scanner on it alone is worth it. It was an afterthought to me when I got the phone, but now it's the single most important feature on the phone to me. The camera is also better than anything phone camera I've had before. Also, I play some games on my phone, and having better hardware helps a lot with that.
    - sireat 10y ago
      What is so useful about a fingerprint scanner? I could see how infrared sensor like in that new Caterpillar phone could come in useful especially if you are in a building trade, but fingerprint scanner?
taneq 10y ago
That's precisely the "issue", and it's only a problem if you make it a problem. The early-adopter and rapid-early-development churn is slowing down because processor technology is maturing and has reached full market penetration, so the market for new devices is shrinking. It's like a hotdog stand calling it a "market crash" when they've sold everyone a hotdog and nobody's hungry after lunchtime. The automotive industry faced the same issue a long time ago, and their solution was to turn cars into a fashion statement. You no longer upgrade your car because your old one is worn out, you upgrade to signal your wealth through conspicuous consumption. The mobile phone market is somewhat the same way. The desktop PC market? Not so much.
- floatrock 10y ago
  Ain't that a bit sad, all that energy and pollution going towards planned obsolescence so that he with the shiniest toys wins? There is some legitimate utility derived from novelty -- I don't want to be walking around in my grandfather's battered rags either -- but I wonder if some day we can shift towards something more sustainable and less paying to dig consumerist holes then paying again to fill them back in.
  - taneq 10y ago
    Yeah, I never went in for replacing things just for the 'new car smell'. That's probably why I drive a nearly-30-year-old car. :) The point about your grandad's battered rags is that they're battered rags, though, not that they're old. His good leather jacket is probably still perfectly serviceable today.
    - sjg007 10y ago
      My leather jacket is 20 years old and in great shape.

ranci 10y ago

Is half of college graduates being unemployed or working a min wage job picking a narrative too? Is pointing out that wages are completely stagnant and not rising picking a narrative too? What information would you need to receive to admit the economy is not healthy?

pmalynin 10y ago
Yes, don't go studying 17th Romantic Literature expecting a job.
- ant6n 10y ago
  Romanticism is a 19th century thing.
  - maaku 10y ago
    Obviously that's not what he studied in college.
  - eru 10y ago
    Might be the joke?
    - Ericson2314 10y ago
      Nah, that would be too clever.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ranci 10y ago
  I said 50% of graduates are min wage or unemployed. Not the 1% who majored in romantic literature. You also didn't address the fact that wages paid to employees are completely stagnant.
  - pmalynin 10y ago
    I think the point went over your head. It is not the systems fault that a person that chooses to graduate in a non marketable field does not have a job, e.g. a person who graduates in Romantic Literature. Everyone who graduated cs that I know has no trouble finding a job. One that is not at McBurger.
cik2e 10y ago
Where are you getting this 50% number from? http://www.epi.org/publication/the-class-of-2015/ http://www.epi.org/publication/the-class-of-2015/ For young college graduates, the unemployment rate is currently 7.2 percent (compared with 5.5 percent in 2007), and the underemployment rate is 14.9 percent (compared with 9.6 percent in 2007).

fokov 10y ago

Anecdote, I was an avid gamer that would upgrade whenever the price/performance was good enough for my budget. However, I bought almost top tier stuff back in 2008 and haven't upgraded the core of my system since. I don't game like I used to, but it still does everything I need it to do. I used to do yearly-ish new builds as well.

noir_lord 10y ago
Me as well, I built an i5-2500K system backend 2010(ish), it's still my main home desktop, 32GB RAM and an SSD and it's as fast as the machine at work that is two generations newer (or more correct it's imperceptibly slower). Things have really levelled out for average loads even developer loads (mostly do web dev, run vagrant machines that kind of thing). I can't see me upgrading til this thing dies tbh.
- tostitos1979 10y ago
  What you folks are saying is mostly true. VR and 4K are the drivers for a whole new compute cycle in the home. I think the current core counts for Xeon are good enough for cloud (by this I mean that I think CPU isn't the bottleneck for the average EC2, Google Compute, Azure instance). Any one care to comment?
  - noir_lord 10y ago
    In the sense of VR/4K the CPU is way less important than the GPU and we still have some headroom on those even with existing process, what will be interesting is when everyone else's process catches up with where Intel is now, they've generally stayed out in front of everyone else for a long time (except AMD for a spell). I'm really looking forwards to VR if it catches on though, having an insanely high resolution headset so I can dump multiple monitors for programming is a big win, combine that with something that has the portability/form factor of a MS Book/Macbook Pro and you'd be able to program as capably from a hotel room as at your desk at home/work. That would be the biggest shift in my work habits since I went from Windows to Linux in the late 90's. Also I think once everyone can get down to the same size as intel we might start seeing more exotic architectures, Intel has often won with the "with enough thrust a brick will fly" approach to engineering, it doesn't matter if your chip is clock for clock more efficient if Intel is operating at a level where they can put 5 times as many transistors down in the same unit area and ramp the clock speed way up.

tomc1985 10y ago

Maybe they should adjust their business to account for this new cycle of usage, and not fight it

johntb86 10y ago
That's why they're cutting 11% of their workforce.
- tostitos1979 10y ago
  I must say, I'm surprised by how much their workforce swelled. Why did their workforce rise so much after 2009? Was this in the Bay area? Did this rise bring in additional revenue/create new business lines?
  - scholia 10y ago
    One of the things mentioned in the story is that the "period of [staff] growth includes its two largest acquisitions, McAfee in 2011 and Altera last year". I'd assume these acquisitions added to revenues.....

CydeWeys 10y ago

Intel screwed up and didn't become a major player in the mobile market. They could have, because they are still the world's best chip maker, but they didn't. The mobile market is experiencing the most growth and also the shortest product lifetimes. I still get a new phone every 1-2 years because the upgrades are worth it, but my laptop needs upgrades less often, and my desktop less often than that. Mobile phone processors today are where desktop processors were a decade and a half ago in terms of growth potential.

majewsky 10y ago
> I still get a new phone every 1-2 years because the upgrades are worth it Really? About the only reason why I'm getting a new phone every so often is when the old one stops being updated. (My Nexus 4 lasted 3 years, and it would have done another year.) Planned obsolescence, if you want.
- revelation 10y ago
  I'm still using my Nexus 4, that thing has pretty much already set the "good enough" bar we've come to reference for why PC sales are tanking. The only problem is a lack of security updates, but we can't blame the hardware for that. Incidentally I had a HTC Desire HD before and that became unusable on newer versions, as is the Nexus 7 now. These two clearly didn't have the good enough hardware specs.
- CydeWeys 10y ago
  The phone market is still rapidly evolving. For instance, I have a Nexus 5X right now. The fingerprint scanner on it alone is worth it. It was an afterthought to me when I got the phone, but now it's the single most important feature on the phone to me. The camera is also better than anything phone camera I've had before. Also, I play some games on my phone, and having better hardware helps a lot with that.
  - sireat 10y ago
    What is so useful about a fingerprint scanner? I could see how infrared sensor like in that new Caterpillar phone could come in useful especially if you are in a building trade, but fingerprint scanner?

taneq 10y ago

That's precisely the "issue", and it's only a problem if you make it a problem. The early-adopter and rapid-early-development churn is slowing down because processor technology is maturing and has reached full market penetration, so the market for new devices is shrinking. It's like a hotdog stand calling it a "market crash" when they've sold everyone a hotdog and nobody's hungry after lunchtime. The automotive industry faced the same issue a long time ago, and their solution was to turn cars into a fashion statement. You no longer upgrade your car because your old one is worn out, you upgrade to signal your wealth through conspicuous consumption. The mobile phone market is somewhat the same way. The desktop PC market? Not so much.

floatrock 10y ago
Ain't that a bit sad, all that energy and pollution going towards planned obsolescence so that he with the shiniest toys wins? There is some legitimate utility derived from novelty -- I don't want to be walking around in my grandfather's battered rags either -- but I wonder if some day we can shift towards something more sustainable and less paying to dig consumerist holes then paying again to fill them back in.
- taneq 10y ago
  Yeah, I never went in for replacing things just for the 'new car smell'. That's probably why I drive a nearly-30-year-old car. :) The point about your grandad's battered rags is that they're battered rags, though, not that they're old. His good leather jacket is probably still perfectly serviceable today.
  - sjg007 10y ago
    My leather jacket is 20 years old and in great shape.