6 ms·

All old games have good things and bad things about them. The great things about old games were the challenge. The bad thing about them was that the industry

by Umn44 11y ago

All old games have good things and bad things about them. The great things about old games were the challenge. The bad thing about them was that the industry was still learning and hence many games won't age well in terms of some dimension because many lessons had yet to be learned.

Karunamon 11y ago
This is going to make me sound like a ranting old curmudgeon, but I am having a hard time thinking of much that's an improvement in modern games except for art style/graphical limitations. There's not much innovation anymore. Modern AAA titles are rife with handholding, patronizing, unimaginative and focus-grouped-to-hell stories (because those sell the best), DLC bait, and other such tiresome tropes. I remember the 90's being a time when there was a lot of innovation and experimentation because nobody had it down pat what would sell the best. You'd never see a Mister Mosquito[1] or a Vangers[2] or an Urban Assault[3] nowadays. You might see an indie homage or two, but that's totally different from having a large studio throwing resources at the wall and seeing what sticks. It's a time I dearly miss. You want to know what the most memorable game in recent memory was to me? Undertale[4] . A retro-styled indie RPG with graphics that could probably have been pulled off 20 years ago on the SNES, but in spite of that limitation, its story and sound design is absolutely top shelf and is, in my mind, one of those games that everyone should play at least once. Commercialism ruins everything. Sure, the usual response to this is "but there are more games than ever, and it's easier for anyone to jump in", which is true, but it still feels like as if there's some magic that was long since lost, only occasionally recaptured by a clever group of developers. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mosquito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mosquito [2]: http://store.steampowered.com/app/264080/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/264080/ [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Assault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Assault [4]: http://undertale.com/about.htm http://undertale.com/about.htm
- HCIdivision17 11y ago
  Here's the really cool bit: today we can have both. I get to play Chrono Trigger - a masterpiece of artfully taking a system to its limits - and I can play The Witness - a gorgeous game that would lose so much if it couldn't be rendered so well. To me, the only hope is to have lots and lots and lots of games made. Whenever we wax philosophical about old games, no one ever mentions the absolute piles of junk that were made. And then some were good, but not great (compare Super Monkey Ball to Marble Madness) I loved Marble Madness as a little kid but couldn't really wrap my head around the controls, whereas SMB was fun right off the bat (and I was still terrible at it - but for actual gameplay reasons now). Remember Roller Coaster Tycoon? The whole game felt rock solid and hand crafted. The 3D version added the ability to ride. But the world was so much less pretty. By contrast, look at the evolution of 3D in the Myst series; the game was supposed to be played like Uru, but computers could only handle HyperCard at the time. And contrast again with Into the Manhole, which really ought to be flash cards (or like flipping pages in a book - I remember the animations surprising and delighting me as a kid). TL;DR: don't worry, it's not all bad. Some games need constraints, and people will build engines just for that. And some don't. But the important thing is: more games! (So more amazing ones trickle out).
- Umn44 11y ago
  "This is going to make me sound like a ranting old curmudgeon, but I am having a hard time thinking of much that's an improvement in modern games except for art style/graphical limitations." Matchmaking made it a lot easier for people to play pickup games over joining servers. Even though I too hate the lack of dedicated servers. The blending of cinematics with gameplay like in mass effect 2 and Tranformers Fall of cybertron. You need to play those games to understand. In ye old days we'd play a level and get rewarded with a cutscene, in Mass effect 2/Transformers the 'cinematic' is merged with the set-piece level design so that you are "in" the movie. God of war series for PS2 is another one. Also Ace combat 5. Street fighter 4. Shadow complex. There are definitely a few standouts in modern gaming. You should pick up Magicka, Wizard wars and awesomenauts on steam.
- jjoonathan 11y ago
  If I wanted to give "old school" games a shot, which few should I try? I haven't played many -- Sonic as a kid, I watched FF7 and Symphony of the Night on youtube -- so I don't really have a good basis to judge from, but nothing I've seen obviously meets (let alone exceeds) the bar set by my favorite modern games, e.g. Soma: Story, Atmosphere, Thought Provoking Deus Ex HR: Story, Atmosphere, Thought Provoking BioShock 1: Story, Thought Provoking DragonAge 1,3 / MassEffect 1,2,3: Story, Characters Witcher 3: Story, Characters Portal 2: Story, Mechanics Undertale: Story, Mechanics Alien Isolation: Story, Atmosphere, Mechanics Mirror's Edge: Mechanics Braid: Mechanics Dark Souls / Bloodborne: Mechanics? (Haven't played) Blood Dragon: 1980s simulator I can identify the "commercialization" trend that you're talking about if and only if I focus my attention to a single franchise or a single aspect of a single franchise. Example: Mass Effect lost its hard SF edge in 2, 3 but the characters and mechanics got better. Starcraft lost its story and character edge in 2, but the mechanics got better. Bioshock lost its philosophical depth in Infinite but the story and characters got better. Overlaid on top of this is a trend of increasing production value. Every franchise gives you some facet to point at and say "devs don't care about X, only production value, boo." This ignores the boring explanation that it's hard to churn out sequels that exceed the original in each and every possible point of comparison. Sequels need to be evaluated on their own merits and the industry needs to be judged as a whole. Otherwise everything is guaranteed to look like it's going downhill. Or maybe I'm wrong. Let me know your favorites and I'll promise to give at least one a try.
  - adwf 11y ago
    Try playing Pillars of Eternity. It's a modern take on some of the old RPGs, by the guys who made the old classics. Then there's Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate 2. Between those you have some of the best western RPGs ever made. I find a lot of modern gaming to be incredibly shallow. Good for a single play session, but I put the game down and never return. It's a bit of a shame really; these companies spend a fortune on fancy graphics and it just doesn't matter one bit to me. I'd rather play Dwarf Fortress in all its ASCII glory than play Destiny or The Division.
    - jjoonathan 11y ago
- techdragon 11y ago
  Urban Assault, now there's a nostalgic flashback. I got hooked on the demo that came on the CD with one of the PC magazines, but never had the money to get the full game. They did a damn decent job trying to merge two very different genres and I'm really saddened by how few games since have done anywhere near as good a job.
- mikeash 11y ago
  If you look beyond the AAA games you can find a lot of great stuff. My favorite is Kerbal Space Program. It's fun, it's educational, it has personality, the challenge scales up with player skill to an almost unlimited degree and entirety organically, you can set your own goals or have them given to you... I could go on. What really amazes me is looking at the players and seeing a lot of people going into aerospace careers because of it. And not only that, but finding that they have a huge leg up on their classmates because they've already learned so much from the game. The magic is still there, you just have to find it.

by Umn44 11y ago

Karunamon 11y ago

This is going to make me sound like a ranting old curmudgeon, but I am having a hard time thinking of much that's an improvement in modern games except for art style/graphical limitations. There's not much innovation anymore. Modern AAA titles are rife with handholding, patronizing, unimaginative and focus-grouped-to-hell stories (because those sell the best), DLC bait, and other such tiresome tropes. I remember the 90's being a time when there was a lot of innovation and experimentation because nobody had it down pat what would sell the best. You'd never see a Mister Mosquito[1] or a Vangers[2] or an Urban Assault[3] nowadays. You might see an indie homage or two, but that's totally different from having a large studio throwing resources at the wall and seeing what sticks. It's a time I dearly miss. You want to know what the most memorable game in recent memory was to me? Undertale[4] . A retro-styled indie RPG with graphics that could probably have been pulled off 20 years ago on the SNES, but in spite of that limitation, its story and sound design is absolutely top shelf and is, in my mind, one of those games that everyone should play at least once. Commercialism ruins everything. Sure, the usual response to this is "but there are more games than ever, and it's easier for anyone to jump in", which is true, but it still feels like as if there's some magic that was long since lost, only occasionally recaptured by a clever group of developers. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mosquito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mosquito [2]: http://store.steampowered.com/app/264080/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/264080/ [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Assault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Assault [4]: http://undertale.com/about.htm http://undertale.com/about.htm

HCIdivision17 11y ago
Here's the really cool bit: today we can have both. I get to play Chrono Trigger - a masterpiece of artfully taking a system to its limits - and I can play The Witness - a gorgeous game that would lose so much if it couldn't be rendered so well. To me, the only hope is to have lots and lots and lots of games made. Whenever we wax philosophical about old games, no one ever mentions the absolute piles of junk that were made. And then some were good, but not great (compare Super Monkey Ball to Marble Madness) I loved Marble Madness as a little kid but couldn't really wrap my head around the controls, whereas SMB was fun right off the bat (and I was still terrible at it - but for actual gameplay reasons now). Remember Roller Coaster Tycoon? The whole game felt rock solid and hand crafted. The 3D version added the ability to ride. But the world was so much less pretty. By contrast, look at the evolution of 3D in the Myst series; the game was supposed to be played like Uru, but computers could only handle HyperCard at the time. And contrast again with Into the Manhole, which really ought to be flash cards (or like flipping pages in a book - I remember the animations surprising and delighting me as a kid). TL;DR: don't worry, it's not all bad. Some games need constraints, and people will build engines just for that. And some don't. But the important thing is: more games! (So more amazing ones trickle out).
Umn44 11y ago
"This is going to make me sound like a ranting old curmudgeon, but I am having a hard time thinking of much that's an improvement in modern games except for art style/graphical limitations." Matchmaking made it a lot easier for people to play pickup games over joining servers. Even though I too hate the lack of dedicated servers. The blending of cinematics with gameplay like in mass effect 2 and Tranformers Fall of cybertron. You need to play those games to understand. In ye old days we'd play a level and get rewarded with a cutscene, in Mass effect 2/Transformers the 'cinematic' is merged with the set-piece level design so that you are "in" the movie. God of war series for PS2 is another one. Also Ace combat 5. Street fighter 4. Shadow complex. There are definitely a few standouts in modern gaming. You should pick up Magicka, Wizard wars and awesomenauts on steam.
jjoonathan 11y ago
If I wanted to give "old school" games a shot, which few should I try? I haven't played many -- Sonic as a kid, I watched FF7 and Symphony of the Night on youtube -- so I don't really have a good basis to judge from, but nothing I've seen obviously meets (let alone exceeds) the bar set by my favorite modern games, e.g. Soma: Story, Atmosphere, Thought Provoking Deus Ex HR: Story, Atmosphere, Thought Provoking BioShock 1: Story, Thought Provoking DragonAge 1,3 / MassEffect 1,2,3: Story, Characters Witcher 3: Story, Characters Portal 2: Story, Mechanics Undertale: Story, Mechanics Alien Isolation: Story, Atmosphere, Mechanics Mirror's Edge: Mechanics Braid: Mechanics Dark Souls / Bloodborne: Mechanics? (Haven't played) Blood Dragon: 1980s simulator I can identify the "commercialization" trend that you're talking about if and only if I focus my attention to a single franchise or a single aspect of a single franchise. Example: Mass Effect lost its hard SF edge in 2, 3 but the characters and mechanics got better. Starcraft lost its story and character edge in 2, but the mechanics got better. Bioshock lost its philosophical depth in Infinite but the story and characters got better. Overlaid on top of this is a trend of increasing production value. Every franchise gives you some facet to point at and say "devs don't care about X, only production value, boo." This ignores the boring explanation that it's hard to churn out sequels that exceed the original in each and every possible point of comparison. Sequels need to be evaluated on their own merits and the industry needs to be judged as a whole. Otherwise everything is guaranteed to look like it's going downhill. Or maybe I'm wrong. Let me know your favorites and I'll promise to give at least one a try.
- adwf 11y ago
  Try playing Pillars of Eternity. It's a modern take on some of the old RPGs, by the guys who made the old classics. Then there's Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate 2. Between those you have some of the best western RPGs ever made. I find a lot of modern gaming to be incredibly shallow. Good for a single play session, but I put the game down and never return. It's a bit of a shame really; these companies spend a fortune on fancy graphics and it just doesn't matter one bit to me. I'd rather play Dwarf Fortress in all its ASCII glory than play Destiny or The Division.
  - jjoonathan 11y ago
techdragon 11y ago
Urban Assault, now there's a nostalgic flashback. I got hooked on the demo that came on the CD with one of the PC magazines, but never had the money to get the full game. They did a damn decent job trying to merge two very different genres and I'm really saddened by how few games since have done anywhere near as good a job.
mikeash 11y ago
If you look beyond the AAA games you can find a lot of great stuff. My favorite is Kerbal Space Program. It's fun, it's educational, it has personality, the challenge scales up with player skill to an almost unlimited degree and entirety organically, you can set your own goals or have them given to you... I could go on. What really amazes me is looking at the players and seeing a lot of people going into aerospace careers because of it. And not only that, but finding that they have a huge leg up on their classmates because they've already learned so much from the game. The magic is still there, you just have to find it.