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I'm really not sure how I feel about this. Moot created the biggest, most toxic garbage fire of an internet community, refused to take management of it, and wal

I'm really not sure how I feel about this. Moot created the biggest, most toxic garbage fire of an internet community, refused to take management of it, and walked away when it became too toxic for anyone to deal with. In a way, he's a perfect new hire for Google, but Google usually doesn't leave quite so much devastation in its wake.

JoshTriplett 11y ago
While it might be incredibly toxic at times, it's also the source of quite a lot of interesting Internet culture and movements, many positive works, and a ton of creativity. It's a microcosm of the worst and the best of what the Internet can pull off. Don't dismiss it out of hand as exclusively negative.
- fredfoobar42 11y ago
  Time and time again, the hands-off moderation of anything on 4chan beyond child pornography has had knock on effects in the real world. GamerGate began life on 4chan, and is still making women's lives miserable. All you have to do is ask Allison Rapp, their latest victim. <http://kotaku.com/the-ugly-new-front-in-the-neverending-video-game-cultur-1762942381> http://kotaku.com/the-ugly-new-front-in-the-neverending-vide... While moot did, eventually, push GamerGate discussion off 4chan, he took forever to do so, and walked away from the site not long after. By not taking a stance on harassment and abuse earlier on, however, he created conditions for such a culture to flourish on 4chan. Is there interesting and positive stuff on 4chan? Almost certainly. Would it still exist had moot taken a stronger stance on dealing with toxic posters? I'll go out on a limb and say yes.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Wait, what makes you say GG started on 4chan? There's plenty of places that are more pro GG than 4chan.
    - fredfoobar42 11y ago
      Because it did, when Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend posted on /v/ to get people to start harassing her.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        Thanks. I should have just read the wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy > Quinn's former boyfriend, published the "Zoe Post", [...] The post was linked on 4chan,
        13thLetter 11y ago
        Just FYI, reading the wikipedia article is a really bad idea. A variety of fanatics, political obsessives and involved administrators have been squatting on it for months; it's a dumpster fire.
Laaw 11y ago
What devastation? 4chan is absolutely not a "toxic garbage fire of an internet community", and it's not even his concept or idea. He didn't "create" anything in that sense. He also didn't, "walk away when it became too toxic for anyone to deal with." That sentence is literally too hard to parse, given what's publicly available information about Moot and 4chan.
- fredfoobar42 11y ago
  > What devastation? Does GamerGate mean anything to you? And that's just one example.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - nickswift 11y ago
    Oh god, here we go again.
user8341116 11y ago
You're a toxic garbage fire.
dang 11y ago
Not cool. No personal attacks on HN, please.
- chatmasta 11y ago
  Is it a personal attack when directed at a public figure?
  - dang 11y ago
    Sure. Being a public figure doesn't mean you're no longer human, though other humans seem to assume so.
vdnkh 11y ago
How is this assessment any better than judging a physical community based on their loudest/most controversial members? The "4chan garbage fire" is a rude stereotype.
- fredfoobar42 11y ago
  If I'm in a physical community where the loudest, and most controversial members are making it a terrible experience for people inside and outside that community, and the leaders refuse to deal with it, I think a fair assessment is that the community is toxic.
  - Strangework 11y ago
    Your statement seems to imply that the loudest, and most controversial, members make it terrible for EVERYONE inside the community. That is not the case in 4chan. There are a large number, if not a majority, of boards which have healthy, constructive cultures and are extremely helpful for hobbyists and enthusiasts.
    - fredfoobar42 11y ago
      So, if it's not terrible for everyone, then it's not a problem---as long as it's not terrible for you. Maybe, perhaps, this would work if the terrible people kept to themselves, but this is rarely the case. I was a regular poster on /mu/ for several years, but once the /pol/ users started trashing the board up, it's been a shell of its former self. And, again, that's just within 4chan. The worst things are what 4chan's community have done outside of the site. See also: GamerGate.
      - ybrah 11y ago
        I think what you're doing is mixing up anon with anon
    - fernandotakai 11y ago
      most people seem to think that 4chan is only /b/. there are way more boards than /b/, with useful discussion. i had great discussions on /sp/ when the world cup was on. same with nfl games.

JoshTriplett 11y ago

While it might be incredibly toxic at times, it's also the source of quite a lot of interesting Internet culture and movements, many positive works, and a ton of creativity. It's a microcosm of the worst and the best of what the Internet can pull off. Don't dismiss it out of hand as exclusively negative.

fredfoobar42 11y ago
Time and time again, the hands-off moderation of anything on 4chan beyond child pornography has had knock on effects in the real world. GamerGate began life on 4chan, and is still making women's lives miserable. All you have to do is ask Allison Rapp, their latest victim. <http://kotaku.com/the-ugly-new-front-in-the-neverending-video-game-cultur-1762942381> http://kotaku.com/the-ugly-new-front-in-the-neverending-vide... While moot did, eventually, push GamerGate discussion off 4chan, he took forever to do so, and walked away from the site not long after. By not taking a stance on harassment and abuse earlier on, however, he created conditions for such a culture to flourish on 4chan. Is there interesting and positive stuff on 4chan? Almost certainly. Would it still exist had moot taken a stronger stance on dealing with toxic posters? I'll go out on a limb and say yes.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Wait, what makes you say GG started on 4chan? There's plenty of places that are more pro GG than 4chan.
  - fredfoobar42 11y ago
    Because it did, when Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend posted on /v/ to get people to start harassing her.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Thanks. I should have just read the wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy > Quinn's former boyfriend, published the "Zoe Post", [...] The post was linked on 4chan,
      - 13thLetter 11y ago
        Just FYI, reading the wikipedia article is a really bad idea. A variety of fanatics, political obsessives and involved administrators have been squatting on it for months; it's a dumpster fire.

Laaw 11y ago

What devastation? 4chan is absolutely not a "toxic garbage fire of an internet community", and it's not even his concept or idea. He didn't "create" anything in that sense. He also didn't, "walk away when it became too toxic for anyone to deal with." That sentence is literally too hard to parse, given what's publicly available information about Moot and 4chan.

fredfoobar42 11y ago
> What devastation? Does GamerGate mean anything to you? And that's just one example.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- nickswift 11y ago
  Oh god, here we go again.

user8341116 11y ago

You're a toxic garbage fire.

dang 11y ago

Not cool. No personal attacks on HN, please.

chatmasta 11y ago
Is it a personal attack when directed at a public figure?
- dang 11y ago
  Sure. Being a public figure doesn't mean you're no longer human, though other humans seem to assume so.

vdnkh 11y ago

How is this assessment any better than judging a physical community based on their loudest/most controversial members? The "4chan garbage fire" is a rude stereotype.

fredfoobar42 11y ago
If I'm in a physical community where the loudest, and most controversial members are making it a terrible experience for people inside and outside that community, and the leaders refuse to deal with it, I think a fair assessment is that the community is toxic.
- Strangework 11y ago
  Your statement seems to imply that the loudest, and most controversial, members make it terrible for EVERYONE inside the community. That is not the case in 4chan. There are a large number, if not a majority, of boards which have healthy, constructive cultures and are extremely helpful for hobbyists and enthusiasts.
  - fredfoobar42 11y ago
    So, if it's not terrible for everyone, then it's not a problem---as long as it's not terrible for you. Maybe, perhaps, this would work if the terrible people kept to themselves, but this is rarely the case. I was a regular poster on /mu/ for several years, but once the /pol/ users started trashing the board up, it's been a shell of its former self. And, again, that's just within 4chan. The worst things are what 4chan's community have done outside of the site. See also: GamerGate.
    - ybrah 11y ago
      I think what you're doing is mixing up anon with anon
  - fernandotakai 11y ago
    most people seem to think that 4chan is only /b/. there are way more boards than /b/, with useful discussion. i had great discussions on /sp/ when the world cup was on. same with nfl games.