14 ms·
Beartooth
- osiris679 11y agoDoes this use a mesh network?
- lallysingh 11y agoLooks that way: https://beartooth.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/216791588-How-does-Beartooth-work- https://beartooth.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/216791588-Ho... "Once you've paired Beartooth with your smartphone you can communicate with any other Beartooth users within range (about 2 miles). You can use Beartooth's app to talk, text, use maps, and share your location"
- unsignedint 11y agoIt sounds like to me just 1-to-1 contact with random people with the same device, and not necessarily using someone else as a relay to form a mesh network.
- nullsmack 11y agoIt's not mesh. It's just a typical data radio. If the person you want to communicate with isn't in range then you can't bounce the signal through other people.
- ianburrell 11y agoIt sounds like the MURS (150 MHz) band that goTenna and Beartooth use doesn't allow store and forward, or a connection to the Internet. Which is unfortunate since one use case would be having a relay in car at trailhead to pass messages from internet.
- linksbro 11y agoIt transmits via some sub-1ghz free spectrum bands, which travel a good distance and have decent structure penetration. https://beartooth.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/216797018-What-frequencies-does-Beartooth-cover- https://beartooth.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/216797018-Wh... This is why unlicensed spectrum bands are great; they allow for stuff like this to be built without a billion dollar spectrum price tag.
- csomar 11y agoI don't think 2 miles is a good travel distance. (or maybe it is from a technical perspective but not from a practical one). That would assume lots of users which I feel can be problematic with a $399 price range and big form factor.
- melling 11y agoThis is why selling to consumers is difficult. Consumers complaining about price is a given. An enterprise solution could be sold for much more. Solving a business pain vs a consumer nice-to-have.
- freehunter 11y agoI've been trying to solve an issue similar to what Beartooth is doing, and 2 miles is amazing range. Bear in mind, these aren't huge towers hundreds of feet above the ground with 50kWh power sources and million dollar price tags, they're battery-powered, handheld, and consumer-priced. And cell towers with all the advantages listed only travel less than 20 miles. 2 miles with those limitations is a great distance. I think maybe you're looking at the wrong use case. This doesn't replace GSM, it replaces walkie-talkies (or rather updates it for the text-based world). The use case is you and your friends are at an event downtown and cell service goes out (like it does when the sites are oversubscribed). You're camping and there's no service that far in the woods. You're in a disaster and trying to find your loved ones. It's short range communications, not long-distance calling. Ham radio would go farther, but sending encrypted communications over ham radio is illegal, so that's right out. This is the next best thing.
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago...or you're on a small farm that's half a mile on each side and you need to know that the gate on the opposite corner from the farmhouse is still closed. A minor change of perspective and suddenly a 2 mile range is fantastic!
- seanp2k2 11y agoHam can do text and digital voice over e.g. D-STAR. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amateur_radio_modes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amateur_radio_modes Encryption to obscure your communication is technically against the rules, but things like D-STAR need a proprietary decoder (the spec isn't open) to be decoded, so some people consider that encryption even though it's pretty popular and not being shut down: http://www.amateurradio.com/encryption-is-already-legal-its-the-intention-thats-not/ http://www.amateurradio.com/encryption-is-already-legal-its-...
- tekklloneer 11y agoThe problem with any mesh network is adoption, and unless this uses some sort of high range communications, I don't see how it'd work well on the given example of "ski slope". I wish they had more specs, less videos. edit: ah, never mind (thanks linksbro)
- whorleater 11y agoThis product is more of a walkie talkie implementation on your phone than a widespread mesh network.
- csomar 11y agoI can see a chicken-egg problem here. Without enough users (probably millions), this device is useless. If the device is useless now, it makes no sense to purchase it. The pricing doesn't help either: $249! (and $399 after pre-sale). Assuming 10 million a good number to kickstart this thing and make it useful in many locations, they'll need to make a few billion dollars sales in the next couple years.
- baldfat 11y agoIf it replaces walkie talkies in rural areas you only need your friends to have them. I know in the Adirondack Mountains in NY has very spotty signal and would be great with a few friends. Currently we use walkie talkies that have a 23 mile range. They cost as a pair $43 on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UE6MIO/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00592CUBG&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=11G661RXPBVYPBXZVBZW http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UE6MIO/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_d...) and they are single purpose and really don't need to worry about battery life.
- adekok 11y agoHmm... $43 for a 23 mile range, or $249 for a 2 mile range. Sometimes improved technology isn't the right solution.
- nmcfarl 11y agoI don’t know about the 2 mi range - but the 23 mi range is in best possible conditions, line of sight from mountain top to valley. Those same walkie talkies advertise a 1 mi range in a "Neighborhood"
- baldfat 11y agoThey are much farther then line of sight. I certainly get two miles in heavy forests and other side of hill. These work great for groups hiking and climbing. http://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2006/07/the_truth_about_range.aspx http://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2006/07/the_truth_about_...
- kin 11y agoWould love to see this in action as it solves my music festival communication woes. The price tag is a little steep though for adoption.
- baldfat 11y agoTry buying a bunch of two ways on amazon. You can get 6 of them for $150 and they work for 10 hours on 2 AA batteries and have a 23 mile range.
- chrissnell 11y agoIf you're talking about 2-meter radios, you're going to need a ham radio license to use them in the US. It's not hard, but it is necessary. Also, FCC regulations do not permit "broadcasting" on these bands. That is, you can't play music over them. Having a music festival playing in the background is flirting with that rule. You're better off just using FRS radios.
- seanp2k2 11y agoThe "23 mile range" business is very optimistic. You'll probably never see over 5 miles of range unless it's line-of-sight between two mountains. However, they'd be great at most festivals or e.g. Burning Man. Look for something FRS or GMRS. There are also 2-meter (~144mhz) radios which parent is talking about like e.g. a Baaofeng UV-5R which are inexpensive software-defined radios that can operate on licensed and unlicensed bands. If you get something like that, you should be aware of the power restrictions of FRS and GMRS and the licensing requirements for GMRS. TL;DR unless you intend to get pretty into it and just want something for festivals and something to give to non-radio-geek friends to use, just get a FRS or GMRS radio. Motorola and Uniden both make quality sets that will work up to a few miles away at festivals.
- michael212 11y agohi sean, we say about 2 miles in all of our documentation. we agree 23 miles isn't realistic. i have personally seen 2 miles plus results hiking, skiing, etc. hope that helps
- rdl 11y agoIs this basically the same as goTenna? http://www.gotenna.com/ http://www.gotenna.com/
- leejoramo 11y agoYes, a comparison between goTenna and BearTooth would be good.
- cullenking 11y agoI've got a 4 pack of gotenna's, and the hardware seems good, but the android app is pretty bad. Pretty sure a solid Android dev could bang out an app with better functionality in a good solid weekend of hacking (assuming they were using an SDK that abstracted all the BTLE comms). Android app is missing some great features like automatic group location updates. Right now you have to get location updates manually broadcast to you by each person in the group. Lots of crashes too. I applied for an SDK but haven't heard anything back in three months. Feels like the project is dead, as there have been no android app updates in that time either.
- GoNoah 11y agoHi, the SDK is not dead at all, it's going to come out in 1-2 months, we just have been focusing on encryption which should be coming this week. By the way, the lack of automated group updates is by design, there is very limited bandwidth made available by the FCC and if we allowed everyone to transmit their locations non-stop it would ruin it for everyone. We do have some features coming soon that will help get locations in a smoother fashion. Please standby to see those functions soon.
- cullenking 11y agoGlad to hear of it, sorry to come across as harsh. I was (and still am) surprised to not see any updates in the app since I got my devices delivered 3.5 months ago. Strongly recommend you guys kick out the occasional bugfix release without piling up fixes for a big release, helps make the project feel like it has a little momentum. Your hardware seems to be top notch! Ahh, good explanation of the group updates functionality. Is this a problem for a small group of 4, every 15 minutes? Seems like not too much bandwidth if you aren't talking about an update ever minute.
- agentgt 11y agoIs there a bluetooth device for making your phone a walkie talkie for CB radio or marine VHF radio? I have wanted that for some time as I think having radio tm for survival over some propriety thing beneficial for emergencies. An example would be something like this https://www.cobra.com/products/professional/29-ltd-bt https://www.cobra.com/products/professional/29-ltd-bt But I want a smaller form factor to throw in a hiking pack and VHF support as well.
- dotBen 11y agoReally, you should just buy a CB/VHF radio. As someone commented above, iPhones are not rugged enough for the kinds of use you might need such a radio in. And batteries can be changed/etc. They really are not expensive.
- agentgt 11y agoYes but the idea/hope would be to minimize form factor as well as having the microphone and speaker being cordless. And for emergencies (unlike others I'm not looking to be social but to have another channel of emergency communication). That being said I do own a marine vhf radio.
- zubeen 11y agoSimilar to : www.gotenna.com
- ianburrell 11y agogoTenna, gotenna.com, is an existing device that does the same thing. Interesting that both goTenna and Beartooth are only sold as pairs.
- sgarman 11y agoI don't think it's interesting. The product would have no use if there was not another person to chat with. Until there is mass adoption the only way to sell is in pairs.
- throwaway21816 11y agoOr you could buy a $20 baofeng and just yell "WHERE YOU AT?" via FRS
- LeoPanthera 11y agoUsing a Baofeng radio on the FRS band is illegal. Transmission on the FRS band is limited to 500 milliwatts using FCC-approved devices only. Baofeng radios are not approved and can transmit at up to 5 watts. However, if you get an Amateur Radio license, you can transmit in the 2 meter and 70cm bands at full power, legally, using your Baofeng radio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-meter_band https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-meter_band https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/70-centimeter_band https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/70-centimeter_band http://www.arrl.org/getting-licensed http://www.arrl.org/getting-licensed
- v1k1n 11y agoYes, it's illegal. So is going 5 mph over the speed limit.
- LeoPanthera 11y agoIt's illegal for a good reason. You may prevent emergency communication with others using licensed equipment. Incorrect use of the radio can also cause interference outside of the FRS band entirely. (Particularly with the Baofengs, which have poor/no output filtering and often cause "splatter" tens of kilohertz off the frequency you think you are transmitting on.)
- ProAm 11y agoThat website is hard to look at, it couldnt be more busy.
- 746F7475 11y agoDoes the device constantly broadcast something so you can see when people are in range? Can this be turned off? What if I don't want to announce everyone where I am? (yeah, it probably doesn't send GPS constantly, but constant radio signals are pretty easy to triangulate). I would just want to broadcast a message and then all devices within range should pick it up and see if they can decrypt it (i.e. was it meant for them)
- 746F7475 11y agoInstead of just downvoting how about you post a reason why? Was I off topic? Did I point out a design flaw?
- jdietrich 11y agoAs with any smartphone product being marketed for use in wilderness environments, a note of caution is necessary. Rescue services have seen an increasing number of life-threatening situations caused by the unwise use of smartphones. Phones aren't sufficiently rugged and often lack user-replaceable batteries, so cannot be relied upon as a navigation tool or as a means of emergency communication. If you're considering buying a product like this, think again. An FRS radio and a Garmin Etrex cost about the same, but are vastly better suited to the task. They are drop resistant, waterproof and will run on ordinary AA batteries. If you are in a remote area, always carry a magnetic compass and paper map and ensure that you have the skills required to use them. Consider carrying distress flares, a signal mirror or a SPOT beacon. https://www.thebmc.co.uk/smartphone-apps-handle-with-care https://www.thebmc.co.uk/smartphone-apps-handle-with-care http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-33801741 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-3380...
- vermontdevil 11y agoAlso take orienteering class if you want to be an outdoorsy person. I took it and it was a blast. Now looking to join a local club and get into orienteering competitions.
- anthonybsd 11y agoOrienteering was mandatory in my school when I was a teenager. Interesting memories... :)
- rapsacnz 11y agoBittersweet, but mostly bitter?
- reitanqild 11y agoSame here. Teacher and two in my class competed on national level, but I never caught the bug although I was happy to learn to use maps and compass as it is useful (and was essential back then) for long hikes.
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- rajangdavis 11y agoI hope this isn't too off topic, but is there anything similar but for networked devices? For example, something for IOT devices to talk to each other minus the internet.
- iokanuon 11y agoActual Wi-Fi access point, Ad-Hoc WiFi, WiFi mesh, Bluetooth
- IshKebab 11y agoThere's LoRaWAN. It's becoming very popular for city-wide IoT networks, and there's an mBed compatible board so it is easy to use. http://www.multitech.com/brands/multiconnect-mdot http://www.multitech.com/brands/multiconnect-mdot http://thethingsnetwork.org/ http://thethingsnetwork.org/
- roymurdock 11y agoJust don't see a value prop to make this feasible. I go to festivals, skiing, camping with friends 2-3 times a year. At a festival, cell service is fine. Camelback with gatorade/water mix is the crucial piece of equipment. Just keep an eye on it, as random people will try to drink from your straw. For casual skiing we set times/places to meet up in case we get separated. Again, cell phones work fine on most mountains. Don't want to throw this bulky, expensive (not water/shock proof?) thing in a plastic bag in my pocket. If I'm going back country, go with a buddy. Keep an avalanche kit (shovel, beacon, air tube) in the backpack and bring a $30 pair of 6 mile, 2-way, replaceable battery, shock/waterproof radios. Camping, the point is to get away from constant communication and leave the phone off, in the car. Again, bring the actual radios if you're going in deep. Smartphones are great for day-to-day life and work, but I feel like half the point of the vacation is being able to untether.
- ldayley 11y agoI don't think it is designed with this use case in mind, despite the marketing that mentions crowded festivals. I see a "Born in Bozeman" badges on the site, so I'm assuming this was born out of necessity for backcountry trekking in wild Montana and not hiking Mt. Tamalpais. I'm not far from Bozeman and I don't have to travel far from home before I lose network coverage from both Verizon and T-Mobile. Sure, I relish the loss of service in a way as a means of escape, but it has higher risks and causes a number of challenges that I think this seeks to overcome. I'm intrigued.
- dboreham 11y agoI bought a sat phone after an experience rescuing a couple (and their two large dogs) in 20 below weather from the Battleridge campground where their truck had become stuck. That's only 20 miles outside of Bozeman but cell service fades out long before there so they had no way to call for help. I've used it a few times over the years when camping and driving around the area on day trips. As you say, cell service is very much optional away from towns and the freeway.
- aj_g 11y agoYep. I'm from Bozeman, and can think of more than a few friends who could find this useful doing field research out here. And to anyone who is wondering, the name is in reference to the Absaroka-Beartooth wilderness, an absolutely gorgeous expanse of land near Bozeman http://www.outsidebozeman.com/places/wilderness-areas/absaroka-beartooth-wilderness-area/absaroka-beartooth-wilderness http://www.outsidebozeman.com/places/wilderness-areas/absaro...
- zmanian 11y agoI've got a Gotenna and it's basically works as advertized and I'm pretty happy with it. http://www.gotenna.com/ http://www.gotenna.com/
- kelvin0 11y agoSo, they've basically put out a modern digital walkie talkie, that uses your smartphone?
- mathgeek 11y agoOn first load, all I see is the blatant "look at this person's butt in tight jeans while they insert a phone into their pocket" video clip. Drove me right off. Do we really need that sort of thing to promote a wireless device in this day and age?
- elbigbad 11y agoI didn't get the "sex sells" angle from that. I'm a male and that's where I keep my phone while walking around. It tied the Beartooth in my mind more to the feelings of "this is a portable cell-phone related device" than to the "sex sells" angle.
- caminante 11y agoNaw. You're over-thinking it. It's an appropriate viz for how it fits in your back pocket, which talks to its size. My gripe with the video's how it hides volume controls.
- sharpercoder 11y agoThe websute us outright lying. It claims that it would connect to nearby beartooth users when you do not have a signal. As I do not see the beartooth device using cables, it must use a signal anyways.
- nxzero 11y agoFact is that most people going into the wildness are dependent on the park to make sure they won't get lost. Learning how to not get lost and how to figure out where you are takes effort, time, and experience; I've seen people with the right tools and knowledge panic and disregard all logic when they realize they're lost. Smart phones, setup correctly on the other hand take zero time to learn to use, and are very very good at showing people where they are regardless of panic. I personally wish more people knew how to use a smart phone in the wild, more so than anything else; in part, because knowing this and using the phone in a blind drop test would help them value spending the time to learn more ways of staying found.
- ntrepid8 11y agoI've had trouble with phone at low temperatures before, even when carried inside my parka, and inside a lifeproof case. Modern smartphones are not made to withstand life threatening temperatures for any length of time. That said, something like this would be better than nothing.
- froo 11y agoIn the "Ultralight" backpacking community, I don't see something like this taking off. I remember watching a video the other day of a guy talking about his gear for the AT and he went so far as to cut his toothbrush down and even talked about drilling holes in the remaining handle to further cut down on weight.
- the_watcher 11y agoThis requires a critical mass of Beartooth users, right? If I'm hiking or camping, how far can I be from the nearest user?
- kcbanner 11y agoWhy do companies insist on disabling the youtube controls when embedding. I want to turn the volume down but I have to copy the URL and watch on youtube instead.
- Sir_Cmpwn 11y agoI would love to see this sort of tech succeed simply because it'll help proliferate mesh networks.
- URSpider94 11y agoIt's probably not a mesh network. It's most likely point to point.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- fred_is_fred 11y agoI had this when I was a kid and it cost about $20. It's called a walkie talkie. The only people you can talk to with this is other users.
- Gustomaximus 11y agoThe answers I looked for; On average you can expect a range of 2 miles We have designed Beartooth to last for a whole 4-day camping trip, music festival, or skiing weekend with our typical messaging usage (3000 mAh battery) Each user must have their own Beartooth device connected to their phone.
- diegorbaquero 11y agoThe website started consuming my CPU and RAM so badly. Goodbye
- JakeDOD 11y agoChrome task manager shows spikes of up to 99% CPU usage, and idles at 15%... At first glance, it looks like animation drawing functions are being triggered every frame regardless of whether or not anything needs to be animated.