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MA, CA take the top spots in Bloomberg's index of innovative states
- hwstar 11y agoMassachusetts could be even more innovative if they banned noncompetes. EMC is the biggest employer lobbying to keep noncompetes in the state. Dell, based in Texas will probably want to keep noncompetes in place as well.
- fawce 11y agoI agree, this is the most important issue for innovation in MA.
- Steltek 11y agoReally? Have you or someone you know had their noncompetes held against them? I've never actually seen it done here (MA), which is a good reason alone to abolish them but doesn't equate to them holding back innovation.
- notacoward 11y agoThe worst I've had to endure myself is "friendly warnings" in exit interviews, but I know others who have been sued or overtly threatened with a suit. It doesn't take many actual cases for the chilling effect to be felt all around.
- lsllc 11y agoIt's a bullying tactic that makes it difficult for employees to either go out on their own or go to other companies. Would you be willing to go to court to find out? I used to work with a guy who came up with a fairly good product idea (in his own time and at his own cost). He brought it to mgmt and they were not interested (wasn't in our space). So he tried to go out on his own with it and immediately received a Cease & Desist order. His lawyer said if he went to court could easily cost him up to $50K to defend successfully. So he gave up & complied. Can you imagine the outrage if a plumbing business tried to enforce a non-compete (e.g. "you can't work as a plumber for 2 years"). Well ... unions. Mass. would do well to outlaw them, but sadly the state legislature is easily bought so I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.
- fps 11y agoAs someone who works for a start-up and tries to hire in MA, our biggest issue for innovation is a lack of people. Hiring is extremely hard here due to lack of applicants. The cost of living in the area is relatively high (only about 20% less than SF) and the winter weather is too cold for most people. Thankfully, Boston isn't as opposed to building as SF, so lots of new apartments are coming on the market every year. Hopefully that will drive down rents, or at least justify the high rents with nicer apartments. I'm not sure what to tell people about the weather, though.
- sammydavis 11y agoAll those issues sound just like the scenario in Washington State, which mostly means the greater Seattle area. Our blocking issues for growing are enough devs, infrastructure costs (roads are crowded, buildings are in shorter supply, hard to find a place to build a new building in Kirkland, say). Also high cost of living. I personally think non-competes must hurt freedom to move around companies here a little bit too. I have only heard of it being an issue a few times. Still, more worker freedom is better; it must be that some people are disincentivized from switching. Worker "job switching lubrication" is an important economic boost that California has and we don't.
- djb_hackernews 11y agoAs someone that lives in Cambridge and going by your linkedin profile and glassdoor salaries, you might want to try bumping your salaries up by 15+%...
- at-fates-hands 11y agoWhat's their success record for enforcing them? In Minnesota, I've had companies twice drag me into court trying to enforce a non-compete and the judge laughed at both companies and I was sent on my way. The key in both cases was the company I had left was trying to keep me from working in the same field for a competitor. My attorney argued that if I'm "gainfully employable" you can't restrict me from earning a living in my chosen field - to do so would invite economic hardship. The judge asked if they would rather compensate me for two years at my current salary (which was a six figure salary), or let me go work for their competitor. The company quickly chose the latter.
- hwstar 11y agoDon't know, as I am in CA. Someone from MA would have to answer this. The reason I won't consider jobs in states where noncompetes are legal is because employers will force them on employees during the hiring process (usually by surprise after the employee has given notice at there previous employer). Noncompetes would be almost fair if it was required to compensate the employee for the duration of the time it is enforced. In the US, that's rare, but in the EU it not uncommon (gardening leave). In other words, the real underlying reason that noncompetes are used is to limit job-hopping by employees looking for better working conditions or a higher salary, but under the guise of prevent company secrets from being disclosed to a competitor is what is sold to the legislature.
- burkaman 11y agoSeems a little weird to avoid 90% of the country for this reason. Why not just ask at the beginning of the interview process? Do you know of cases where a company has lied about their policy until after the candidate has quit their old job?
- hwstar 11y agoThey may not lie, but they will attempt to dodge the question. You may also be deemed a troublemaker if you probe too much. (Which is probably OK, as you don't want to work in such an environment) They want the docile job candidate who will sign anything with no questions asked.
- meddlepal 11y agoWe're getting there slowly. Keep in mind our big high-tech industry isn't electronics or software but rather bio-med which is big money and far more business and culturally conservative.
- lsllc 11y agoFight the good fight: https://fairemploymentalliance.org https://fairemploymentalliance.org
- mc32 11y agoThat's quite surprising achievement considering their surface area and pop size which both relative to CA, are small. And given the CA propaganda, doubly surprising. On the other hand, they have some great higher ed institutions. By propaganda I mean the constant CA self congratulatory atmosphere, we're the best, most innovative, always at the forefront of cool, if we were a nation we'd rank... economically, etc... Good on you bay state.
- JoeAltmaier 11y agoWell, MA only won by percentages. Of course CA winds by orders of magnitude when total size of the categories are considered. CA is larger than most nations on earth. Its economic opportunities are 100 for every 1 anywhere else.
- jedmeyers 11y agoI have read somewhere that Santa Clara County's GDP and population is really close to one of Qatar's.
- UshZilla 11y agoAh, well. Only one reaction possible. I like to think this is how Gov. Brown handled the news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i51lXfc2zDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i51lXfc2zDw
- Zikes 11y agoI live in Arkansas and I am only slightly surprised at the state's position. I did expect we'd beat out Louisiana, at least.
- runevault 11y agoEh being from AR (though I now live in Colorado) I'm not totally surprised. It doesn't help such a large percent of the state's revenue/business is concentrated in a tiny portion of the state (mind you at least it is next to the biggest university as well).
- sammydavis 11y agoFayetteville and Little Rock are the two innovation centers (hard not to quote those 2 words). Acxiom, Walmart.
- nickpsecurity 11y agoI stay in Tri-State area within Memphis Metro bounds mainly. The culture and priorities of local governments seem to be against intellectualism or high-tech to the point that TN and MS's positions on the list don't surprise me. That TN beat out MS made sense but sad that MS was so low. Thing is, the Mid-South needs innovation and high-tech jobs to offset the poverty and crime coming from losses in manufacturing and farming. Yet, it's almost like they fight positive stuff. Not sure if any of this applies to AK. The three states usually have more similarities than differences as it's all similar types of people. Like an extended family, haha.
- Zikes 11y agoI know exactly what you mean, there's a really strong anti-intellectualism that blankets this region. It's mostly in rural areas, but that accounts for probably 95% of the state's geography so they get to call all the shots unfortunately. Also Arkansas is AR, AK is Alaska. A pretty common mistake, cousin ;D
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- theseatoms 11y agoHealthcare tech, which is disproportionately based in MA, is having a moment. So I imagine that contributed to the ranking.
- dekhn 11y agoThe difference between the top two is not large enough to conclude one is more innovative than another.
- iLoch 11y agoI'd like to see where Canadian provinces fit on this list. Wonder if those numbers are available.
- minikites 11y agoIt would be interesting to add a column of average income tax rates. At a glance, it seems like higher tax states tend to have more innovation, but that could just be my own bias. (Correlation isn't sufficient to show causation, but it would show that taxes don't have a negative effect on innovation as many anti-tax proponents would argue.)
- oldmanjay 11y agoIf could also show that where innovation has led to exploding revenue, politicians decided to take a bigger cut. The trouble is, with no way to isolate the effects, you can only make religious statements about the causes. People who want more state control will see taxes as a good, as they do given any set of facts.
- minikites 11y agoAn influential sect of economics is unashamedly founded on beliefs instead of empiricism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology
- sammydavis 11y agoWashington state is the easy counter case for high tax states. No state income tax, 10% sales tax. Doing about as well as these states. In fact, you are prohibited from moving here. And there's a constant complaint that we are overtaxed and that adding income taxes would destroy the state (just like Mass. and Ca. have been destroyed).
- TulliusCicero 11y agoCalifornia and Mass. have been blue, high tax states for decades. If high taxes were as destructive to entrepreneurship and innovation as low-tax proponents usually claim, one would expect that these two states would be in the economic dumps. Instead, the opposite is true.
- Steltek 11y agoMA doesn't really have a high income tax. It's half of CA's and less than a lot of red states (AR, MO, TN). It's going to drop to 5.1% or 5.0% or something soon as well (I think?). http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/income_rates_large.png http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/...
- seibelj 11y agoBoston is filled with college students and skilled professionals. The skilled professionals work in tech, biotech, finance, and healthcare primarily. Boston is an amazing city that any one who is tiring of the SF/SV scene should seriously consider.
- keypusher 11y agoMA beat out CA in the following categories: * Percentage of state GDP spent in R&D. * Percentage of "tech" companies vs total companies. This counts software, hardware, defense, pharmaceutical, biotech, renewable energy, etc. * GDP / employed person. * Percentage of STEM employees / total employees. CA beat MA in the following categories: * Percentage of STEM degree holders / total population. * Patents / US Total and Patents / million people. All categories were equally weighted.
- EthanHeilman 11y agoI would love to know the values at a city resolution.
- dantillberg 11y agoYeah, that would be more valuable. "Boston" is a huge portion of "MA", while (for example) "San Francisco" is but a small slice of "CA", so if the Boston area were compared directly against the San Francisco area, the results would no doubt be quite different.
- keypusher 11y agoMany of the Boston area tech companies are actually outside Boston (Cambridge, Rt 128) while many of the SF area companies are similarly outside San Franscisco (Palo Alto, Mountain View, Cupertino, Berkeley, etc).
- digikata 11y agoSo the categories where MA wins are ones that basically penalize CA for having other healthy non-tech industries.
- pkaye 11y agoWhy is Maryland highest is science and engineering degree holders? And how does that differ from STEM concentration?
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoLot of government and contractor jobs in the DC suburbs.
- edhebert 11y agoNASA?
- GeneralMayhem 11y agoLots of medical jobs - the NIH is in Bethesda, and Johns Hopkins Hospital is the #1 employer in Baltimore (with the university not far behind). Plus tons of NASA (Goddard), DoD (Ft. Meade and NSA headquarters), and related contractors in the DC suburbs. DC has more post-graduate degrees per capita than any state (and more than most cities), and Maryland gets a lot of spillover. The difference in the statistics is explained below the chart - "STEM concentration" is based on employment field, regardless of education.
- sureshv 11y agoNIH - Bethesda, NSA - Fort Meade, Johns Hopkins - Baltimore, U of Maryland
- tryitnow 11y agoThese rankings are pretty meaningless. All of these metrics except for productivity are "density" measures. That is the size of the state matters (in a way that penalizes states with larger, more diverse economies). A better ranking would be to use CSAs. Industry clusters are based more on region than states. State borders are relatively arbitrary with respect to technology clusters. CSAs are based on commute times so better reflect industry clustering. Having said all that, I think MA is great. If I didn't hate the cold weather and East coast cultural conservatism I would consider moving to the Boston area.
- kolbe 11y agoNext headline: Bloomberg Tops Business Insider in Making Up Meaningless Ranking.
- chipgap98 11y agoI'm from Boston and am always confused by the whole "East coast cultural conservatism" thing, care to elaborate?
- guelo 11y agoIf you haven't lived in California then it's hard to notice the stodginess of the society you live in.
- thrownaway2424 11y agoI can't tell if the hilarity of your statement was intended.
- vinay427 11y agoI feel like it wasn't intended. I'm honestly not sure when we arrived at HN users calling societies outside of California "stodgy."
- in_cahoots 11y agoI live in California but grew up on the East Coast, and I go back fairly often. I'm honestly baffled by your comment here. The main difference I see is in the diversity of people you will find in CA -- it seems that few people are really 'from' California, we all migrated here from somewhere else. But otherwise I don't see many cultural differences.
- davidw 11y agoOregon is 6th - not bad at all considering it's relatively new to tech, and doesn't have that large a population in any event.
- kyleblarson 11y agoAnd on top of that Oregon is actually a desirable place to live as compared with MA or CA.
- davidw 11y agoCalifornia has a bunch of great stuff going for it in terms of weather, a variety of landscapes, and so on, but between the NIMBYs and the inability to deal with density... yeah, it's got some serious problems too. I visited Boston once in the summer. Nice place, but no way would I ever live there.
- thrownaway2424 11y agoI've heard that the bird sanctuaries are lovely this time of year.
- Greenisus 11y agoI have to disagree with you there, but only about the part where you say MA and CA are not desirable. Oregon is a wonderful place, but Massachusetts and California are also great. I'd be happy to live in any of them (I live in California).
- shas3 11y ago> relatively new to tech - Tektronix (now acquired), founded in Portland in 1946 - Intel, opened their largest center outside Santa Clara in 1974 + lots of companies that have been acquired, etc. It has been called the Silicon Forest at least since 1981 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Forest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Forest
- davidw 11y agoYou can find some tech stuff anywhere, but relatively speaking, there wasn't too much in Oregon until more recently. I grew up in Eugene.
- dceddia 11y agoContributing to the ranking of MA is probably Boston's "Innovation District"[0] that has been renovating some of the less-nice parts of the South Boston waterfront area. [0] http://www.innovationdistrict.org/faq/ http://www.innovationdistrict.org/faq/
- et2o 11y agoI don't understand the point of things like these. You could choose any set metrics or variables that you want. How do we know these arbitrary categories are actually associated with a meaningful outcome? This is silly