11 ms·

The answer depends on perspective and subjectivity. If I took the ship across the ocean last year, and now I take the fully-parts-replaced version this year, I

The answer depends on perspective and subjectivity. If I took the ship across the ocean last year, and now I take the fully-parts-replaced version this year, I'm still calling it by the same name. In my mind it is "same", unless I decide to get especially academic about it. It is both same and not-same. Meh. Not the most interesting of paradoxes. ;)

electricblue 11y ago
Its more interesting when you consider how it applies to living beings. If I replace every part of a dog with cybernetics, is it still the same dog? At what point does it stop being the same dog? The brain? The nervous system? Other various senses? How much of identity is tied up in how a creature perceives its environment? What happens to the creature when we alter that perception or enhance it?
- jheriko 11y ago
  is identity even real? such thinking can be construed as a 'reductio ad absurdum' argument that it is not... how can we even tell if it is a concrete concept? its very poorly defined to begin with too...
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    I'd guess it's about as real as most other concepts we use - fuzzy at the borders and breaking down when you focus on them too hard. It's like asking when a chair stops being a chair - when it has 3 legs? 2 legs? When it's angled 45 degrees? 30 degrees? Etc. I suspect that identity is just another way of grouping things by properties, in this case including sharing spatial and temporal history - I am the same I was 10 minutes ago, because I'm made mostly of what I was made 10 minutes ago, and I moved somewhat continuously through space, etc.
    - jheriko 11y ago
      yeah, it falls out of how the brain functions i think... there are a bunch of classifiers in there, and its not always easy to map what they do to reasoning. there are loads of fuzzy concepts like this with day-to-day utility which are very difficult to define accurately in a way that unambiguously communicates intent to another person.
- lfowles 11y ago
  Also interesting when applied to OSS. https://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/260347/ship-of-theseus-applied-to-gpl-can-i-relicense-my-program-if-i-replace-all-of https://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/260347/ship-...
njharman 11y ago
> The answer depends on perspective and subjectivity. And therein lies the entire discipline of Philosophy.

electricblue 11y ago

Its more interesting when you consider how it applies to living beings. If I replace every part of a dog with cybernetics, is it still the same dog? At what point does it stop being the same dog? The brain? The nervous system? Other various senses? How much of identity is tied up in how a creature perceives its environment? What happens to the creature when we alter that perception or enhance it?

jheriko 11y ago
is identity even real? such thinking can be construed as a 'reductio ad absurdum' argument that it is not... how can we even tell if it is a concrete concept? its very poorly defined to begin with too...
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  I'd guess it's about as real as most other concepts we use - fuzzy at the borders and breaking down when you focus on them too hard. It's like asking when a chair stops being a chair - when it has 3 legs? 2 legs? When it's angled 45 degrees? 30 degrees? Etc. I suspect that identity is just another way of grouping things by properties, in this case including sharing spatial and temporal history - I am the same I was 10 minutes ago, because I'm made mostly of what I was made 10 minutes ago, and I moved somewhat continuously through space, etc.
  - jheriko 11y ago
    yeah, it falls out of how the brain functions i think... there are a bunch of classifiers in there, and its not always easy to map what they do to reasoning. there are loads of fuzzy concepts like this with day-to-day utility which are very difficult to define accurately in a way that unambiguously communicates intent to another person.
lfowles 11y ago
Also interesting when applied to OSS. https://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/260347/ship-of-theseus-applied-to-gpl-can-i-relicense-my-program-if-i-replace-all-of https://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/260347/ship-...

njharman 11y ago

> The answer depends on perspective and subjectivity. And therein lies the entire discipline of Philosophy.