9 ms·

Is this really a thing?

fit2rule 11y ago
For some Dads, alas, yes. It is a thing. Open affection towards ones children, in some settings, can be a surefire way to attract unwanted attention from people who can only be described as hair-trigger SJW's, just waiting to pounce on any male they deem a threat, and 'offensive' behaviour such as holding ones daughters' hand, or giving her a kiss in greeting, has often gotten a Dad in more hassle than its worth. I think its atrocious - as a father, I can't think of anything worse than some social entity claiming that my affection for my children has a nefarious intent. It is really a common tragedy, alas - so much so that I see associate Fathers whose daughters just don't get balanced affinity from their parents. Yes, it is a thing, and it is a sad state of affairs. My boys get hugs and kisses regardless. Love shouldn't have to be defended from others, but alas PDA for children is a huge social issue in modern America - and England too, I have noticed. In some ways, our societies are terribly pornographic.
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  I don't know why you consider that "justice". That sounds awful to me.
  - fit2rule 11y ago
    Its not justice, and thats the point. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't really seem to apply much to those Dads' who openly love their kids and wish to express that love physically - i.e. hugs, kisses, hand-holding, care. Its a tragic circumstance that a man can't express his love for his kids without having to suffer from social stigma at the hands of those who think they are doing society a favor by propagating the dogma that any man who loves a child must be an offender. I've certainly run into it in my life often enough that I think its really insane that Dads can't love their kids without this threat. I guess it is in some ways similar to the prejudices that the other sexes experience, and maybe fundamentally its sourced from the same conscious/subconscious desire to control the way other people live their lives, regardless of differences/similarities between the relevant parties. If someone wants to hug their kids and openly show affection in the face of social stigma, I think its really the only way out for all of us. Love, above all.
    - erikpukinskis 11y ago
      I agree. I don't understand why you think fighting against affection and care is "social justice". Sounds like the opposite to me.
      - ticviking 11y ago
        SWJ does not refer to most feminists, or social justice advocated. The term originated from, and is most associated with a vocal sub-culture of anti-male feminists largely on tumblr, though somewhat in the larger blog-o-sphere. It's classical puritan pearl clutching with the sacred cows of the left instead of the right, totally annoying, and totally completely normal and well within the tradition of American moral panics.
        DanBC 11y ago
        The term SJW is almost entirely used by misogynistic idiots. Can you point to any "SJWs" who think fathers should not show affection to their daughters? So far the only suggestions it might not be okay have come from people railing against SJWs.
        ticviking 11y ago
        I find it amusing that defining the term is met by an instant ad hominem attack making a claim that all users of the term are unintelligent woman haters. No I'm not aware of any example right off the top of my head. I'm sure I could cherry-pick something if I looked hard enough. That's not the point I was aiming to communicate though. You are quite right that they are involved in an ongoing ideological battle with "the neckbeards" online. Regardless of who tends to use it. The term SJW is pointing to a community that exists on tumblr, that claims to be serving social justice, and holds to a wildly exaggerated definition of basically every term in social science relating to power, oppression, and identity politics. This same community tends to be rather wildly reactive to basically everything that upsets them. They're a vocal minority, as real as and about as rare as the tea party or rabid Trump supporters.
- hyperpape 11y ago
  As the father of a 5 year old girl and a 2 year old boy, I can only add "huh? I'm confused."
- ScottBurson 11y ago
  A couple of years ago I was in a waiting room at a medical clinic. There was a family of three there, a man, a woman, and (I presume) their daughter. The daughter was approaching teenage; she must have been 12 or 13 -- so, not a young child. I was struck by how casually affectionate she was with her father, even at that age sitting on his lap and being held. It was enough to make me wonder if something untoward was going on between them, but I'd be the first to agree that my having that thought says more about me than about them. Really there wasn't anything in their manner that suggested anything except that they loved each other. I don't know if I could be as un-self-conscious with a daughter, at that age, in public. And that troubles me. Good for you for not letting the SJWs get to you.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    I still hug my son, he's 21. Wonder what people make of that, though he doesn't sit in my lap. (Though I could probably sit in his, he's easily a head taller than I am.)
    - hyperpape 11y ago
      I feel like the answer is "nothing". My wife and I were talking about the parent's example of a 12 year old girl sitting in her dad's lap. I come from a warm, but relatively reserved, family and found it a bit weird. My wife comes from a very openly affectionate family and didn't. But from the reserved side of the exchange, I definitely tend hug my dad when I greet him or leave.
    - brudgers 11y ago
      Clearly, you are doing things right.
  - ScottBurson 11y ago
    Downvotes??? ... Oh, I see, it's because I followed the parent in using the abbreviation "SJW". It's not one I normally use; I will avoid it in future. However. I have read in the news about parents being arrested for allowing their children -- 9- and 10-year-olds, not young children -- to play unsupervised, or (in one case) to hang out at a mall while their parent was at a job interview there, for what some busybody thought was too long. 50 years ago, one could never have imagined the police being called -- or if they had been called, actually arresting the parent -- in such a situation. Whatever label one puts on it, there has been a change in American culture that I think is not entirely salutary. Protecting children is important, but people are jumping to conclusions that are not actually warranted by the facts and nuances of the situation.
- reagency 11y ago
  No need to call every social misbehavior "SJW".
  - hyperpape 11y ago
    Frankly, it makes me think the parent poster is not looking at this realistically. What do feminists have to do with this? A typical feminist position is that our society expects dads to be cold and distant and leave parenting to the women, and that this is a bad and sexist assumption. Feminists explicitly call for men to be more involved in parenting and childcare. It would make just as much sense if he'd blamed this problem on communists.
    - A_COMPUTER 11y ago
      He's insinuating that a father that is too close to his daughter would be perceived as a pedophile by women who believe that all men are potential victimizers of women. That perception does exist, I personally experienced it at a park less than a week ago. It is an open question who is "responsible" for it.
      - hyperpape 11y ago
        You did what, and someone did what, and you knew they were a feminist because?
        hyperpape 11y ago
        People are downvoting, but I'm just asking: what was the actual behavior? Did people run after you saying pedophile? Did they follow you around the park watching? Did you feel uncomfortable? I'm confused how someone would not want to ask those questions.
      - rmc 11y ago
        Yes, that attitude (that men being close to daughters is a threat) exists. But does that meme/idea come from feminists? Or from some other part of society that hates paedophiles?
- andersriutta 11y ago
  Can you give any examples of this coming from "SJWs"? Little confused by that specific part of your comment.
- Sideloader 11y ago
  Anyone using SJW (or cuckservative) in a non-ironic way is doing serious damage to their credibility. IMO
  - rmc 11y ago
    It's actually a great shibboleth.
  - proveanegative 11y ago
    That used to be the case but now it is not entirely so. If reputable people (e.g., high-karma HN users) continue to use either word it will eventually be "redeemed" wherever they are reputable and become acceptable to use. edit: For the record, I didn't downvote you.
- Sideloader 11y ago
  I don't doubt this happens, but is it really a "huge social concern" and does it "often gotten a Dad in more hassle than its worth"? Your anecdotal evidence says yes, mine says no. Extreme logic alert...you say "as a father, I can't think of anything worse than some social entity claiming that my affection for my children has a nefarious intent." You can think of _nothing_ worse? Really? Where do you live I want to move there. * emphasis mine

For some Dads, alas, yes. It is a thing. Open affection towards ones children, in some settings, can be a surefire way to attract unwanted attention from people who can only be described as hair-trigger SJW's, just waiting to pounce on any male they deem a threat, and 'offensive' behaviour such as holding ones daughters' hand, or giving her a kiss in greeting, has often gotten a Dad in more hassle than its worth. I think its atrocious - as a father, I can't think of anything worse than some social entity claiming that my affection for my children has a nefarious intent. It is really a common tragedy, alas - so much so that I see associate Fathers whose daughters just don't get balanced affinity from their parents. Yes, it is a thing, and it is a sad state of affairs. My boys get hugs and kisses regardless. Love shouldn't have to be defended from others, but alas PDA for children is a huge social issue in modern America - and England too, I have noticed. In some ways, our societies are terribly pornographic.

erikpukinskis 11y ago
I don't know why you consider that "justice". That sounds awful to me.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  Its not justice, and thats the point. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't really seem to apply much to those Dads' who openly love their kids and wish to express that love physically - i.e. hugs, kisses, hand-holding, care. Its a tragic circumstance that a man can't express his love for his kids without having to suffer from social stigma at the hands of those who think they are doing society a favor by propagating the dogma that any man who loves a child must be an offender. I've certainly run into it in my life often enough that I think its really insane that Dads can't love their kids without this threat. I guess it is in some ways similar to the prejudices that the other sexes experience, and maybe fundamentally its sourced from the same conscious/subconscious desire to control the way other people live their lives, regardless of differences/similarities between the relevant parties. If someone wants to hug their kids and openly show affection in the face of social stigma, I think its really the only way out for all of us. Love, above all.
  - erikpukinskis 11y ago
    I agree. I don't understand why you think fighting against affection and care is "social justice". Sounds like the opposite to me.
    - ticviking 11y ago
      SWJ does not refer to most feminists, or social justice advocated. The term originated from, and is most associated with a vocal sub-culture of anti-male feminists largely on tumblr, though somewhat in the larger blog-o-sphere. It's classical puritan pearl clutching with the sacred cows of the left instead of the right, totally annoying, and totally completely normal and well within the tradition of American moral panics.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        The term SJW is almost entirely used by misogynistic idiots. Can you point to any "SJWs" who think fathers should not show affection to their daughters? So far the only suggestions it might not be okay have come from people railing against SJWs.
        ticviking 11y ago
        I find it amusing that defining the term is met by an instant ad hominem attack making a claim that all users of the term are unintelligent woman haters. No I'm not aware of any example right off the top of my head. I'm sure I could cherry-pick something if I looked hard enough. That's not the point I was aiming to communicate though. You are quite right that they are involved in an ongoing ideological battle with "the neckbeards" online. Regardless of who tends to use it. The term SJW is pointing to a community that exists on tumblr, that claims to be serving social justice, and holds to a wildly exaggerated definition of basically every term in social science relating to power, oppression, and identity politics. This same community tends to be rather wildly reactive to basically everything that upsets them. They're a vocal minority, as real as and about as rare as the tea party or rabid Trump supporters.
hyperpape 11y ago
As the father of a 5 year old girl and a 2 year old boy, I can only add "huh? I'm confused."
ScottBurson 11y ago
A couple of years ago I was in a waiting room at a medical clinic. There was a family of three there, a man, a woman, and (I presume) their daughter. The daughter was approaching teenage; she must have been 12 or 13 -- so, not a young child. I was struck by how casually affectionate she was with her father, even at that age sitting on his lap and being held. It was enough to make me wonder if something untoward was going on between them, but I'd be the first to agree that my having that thought says more about me than about them. Really there wasn't anything in their manner that suggested anything except that they loved each other. I don't know if I could be as un-self-conscious with a daughter, at that age, in public. And that troubles me. Good for you for not letting the SJWs get to you.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  I still hug my son, he's 21. Wonder what people make of that, though he doesn't sit in my lap. (Though I could probably sit in his, he's easily a head taller than I am.)
  - hyperpape 11y ago
    I feel like the answer is "nothing". My wife and I were talking about the parent's example of a 12 year old girl sitting in her dad's lap. I come from a warm, but relatively reserved, family and found it a bit weird. My wife comes from a very openly affectionate family and didn't. But from the reserved side of the exchange, I definitely tend hug my dad when I greet him or leave.
  - brudgers 11y ago
    Clearly, you are doing things right.
- ScottBurson 11y ago
  Downvotes??? ... Oh, I see, it's because I followed the parent in using the abbreviation "SJW". It's not one I normally use; I will avoid it in future. However. I have read in the news about parents being arrested for allowing their children -- 9- and 10-year-olds, not young children -- to play unsupervised, or (in one case) to hang out at a mall while their parent was at a job interview there, for what some busybody thought was too long. 50 years ago, one could never have imagined the police being called -- or if they had been called, actually arresting the parent -- in such a situation. Whatever label one puts on it, there has been a change in American culture that I think is not entirely salutary. Protecting children is important, but people are jumping to conclusions that are not actually warranted by the facts and nuances of the situation.
reagency 11y ago
No need to call every social misbehavior "SJW".
- hyperpape 11y ago
  Frankly, it makes me think the parent poster is not looking at this realistically. What do feminists have to do with this? A typical feminist position is that our society expects dads to be cold and distant and leave parenting to the women, and that this is a bad and sexist assumption. Feminists explicitly call for men to be more involved in parenting and childcare. It would make just as much sense if he'd blamed this problem on communists.
  - A_COMPUTER 11y ago
    He's insinuating that a father that is too close to his daughter would be perceived as a pedophile by women who believe that all men are potential victimizers of women. That perception does exist, I personally experienced it at a park less than a week ago. It is an open question who is "responsible" for it.
    - hyperpape 11y ago
      You did what, and someone did what, and you knew they were a feminist because?
      - hyperpape 11y ago
        People are downvoting, but I'm just asking: what was the actual behavior? Did people run after you saying pedophile? Did they follow you around the park watching? Did you feel uncomfortable? I'm confused how someone would not want to ask those questions.
    - rmc 11y ago
      Yes, that attitude (that men being close to daughters is a threat) exists. But does that meme/idea come from feminists? Or from some other part of society that hates paedophiles?
andersriutta 11y ago
Can you give any examples of this coming from "SJWs"? Little confused by that specific part of your comment.
Sideloader 11y ago
Anyone using SJW (or cuckservative) in a non-ironic way is doing serious damage to their credibility. IMO
- rmc 11y ago
  It's actually a great shibboleth.
- proveanegative 11y ago
  That used to be the case but now it is not entirely so. If reputable people (e.g., high-karma HN users) continue to use either word it will eventually be "redeemed" wherever they are reputable and become acceptable to use. edit: For the record, I didn't downvote you.
Sideloader 11y ago
I don't doubt this happens, but is it really a "huge social concern" and does it "often gotten a Dad in more hassle than its worth"? Your anecdotal evidence says yes, mine says no. Extreme logic alert...you say "as a father, I can't think of anything worse than some social entity claiming that my affection for my children has a nefarious intent." You can think of _nothing_ worse? Really? Where do you live I want to move there. * emphasis mine