5 ms·

Except that shooting someone is generally illegal, whereas having an affair is not. Allocate your sympathy as you wish, but don't pretend that a person deserves

by john_b 11y ago

Except that shooting someone is generally illegal, whereas having an affair is not. Allocate your sympathy as you wish, but don't pretend that a person deserves to be the victim of a crime because you or anyone else find their behavior distasteful.

josinalvo 11y ago
To cheat, to break your word given to a life partner, is not just distasteful. It is wrong. It makes the world a darker place, and not only to you and your partner (and that is what wrong means) I know this kind of statement is viewed with distrust. And I see why this is so. But I think some moral discussion might be good (rather than just the bland 'lets not judge') First, I am not saying that I think all marriages need to be monogamical or 'till death'. Both ideas are probably bad on average (i.e.: make the world a darker place as well, cause needless suffering). I, for one, think that promissing monogamy is a bad idea. But to break the promice of monogamy is, indeed, bad. First, it is inherently unfair: One partner (Pa) might be resisting temptations, to the benefit of the other (Pb). Pb gets benefits from increased marriage security, increase sexual availability from Pa, increased emotional availability... But does not offer the same. I mean, it would be clear that withdrawing all the money from a joint savings account is bad, right? That is the same thing... One side is doing a lot of effort to keep a mutual benefit working... To cheat is a form of exploitation.
- fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
  The time, place, and manner of sex or other activity that occurs between two consenting adults is none of my business whatsoever unless one of those people is my spouse. When one of those people is my spouse and the other is not me, then my problem is with my spouse, not with any website or other instrument used to facilitate the infidelity. What meaning would an agreement such as marriage have if cheating were literally impossible? >But I think some moral discussion might be good Let's discuss how we can keep from inflicting our own personal morals on those who do not share our moral philosophies; lest someone show up here and one-up us all with an even better morality than the one we already have.
  - josinalvo 11y ago
    >Let's discuss how we can keep from inflicting our own personal morals on those who do not share our moral philosophies The interesting question, is, of course, which are private matters and which are matters of injustice that 'society' should intervene to fix. THE WHOLE QUESTION is whether or not cheating is 'a private matter' or 'an injustice that ...'. Just stating that it is 'private' does not seem to be an answer to the question. If I understood you correctly, your argument it 'is is private, leave it alone, else someone else will mess with other private issues'. Why do you think it belongs to the 'private' rather than 'injustice' category? > one-up us all with an even better morality than the one we already have. For me, that would be very nice indeed! Convincing moral arguments are very rare!
    - fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
      I think I was quite clear as to why a marital relationship is a private matter. I think we can agree that in society there are many different moral systems. Now I will use the words "good" and "bad" with the stipulation that these words have no inherent meaning, but instead only have the meaning that we apply to them from within our own personal moral system. You can compare another moral system to your own, and decide that it is "better" or "worse" but you cannot make an objective determination. Now, you can decide that your morality where adultery should be prohibited/prevented/punished is better for your purposes than mine where adultery is none of the government's business, but that is just your personal preference. The problem is that this may never end and there is always another fellow who is more moral than you or I or both of us, and whose morality tells him that shoes are immoral or that red-haired people are witches or something like that; and this fellow wants the government to segregate the witches for the protection of the good moral folks, and also prevent everyone from wearing shoes, even firemen. So, we have to compromise on our morality and find a set of common rules upon which most of us can agree and which will protect people from serious harm even if it allows for some behavior that makes some of us uncomfortable. Why do you think that two other peoples' marriage is some concern to you, or to society at large? And please, no references to vague concepts that we have no real definition of such as 'making the world a darker place' >For me, that would be very nice indeed! Convincing moral arguments are very rare! That's because morals are very personal, arbitrary, and often irrational.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- philwelch 11y ago
  Cheating is also something that roughly 50-70% of married people do. Sex, along with food, water, and drugs, is one the basic, biological human compulsions and it's part of the human condition, for a large majority of us, to fall victim to it against our better judgment. As wrong as it is to cheat, it's even more wrong (and more harmful, which is perhaps the same thing) to invade people's privacy and expose cheating.
amyjess 11y ago
Having an affair actually is illegal in almost half the US, and in some states, it's even a felony.
- balls2you 11y ago
  > Having an affair actually is illegal in almost half the US, and in some states, it's even a felony. Wow! United Saudi Arabia (USA)!
  - cjsthompson 11y ago
    Saudi Arabia allows polygyny which is the complete opposite of this.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      Allowing polygyny is not the opposite of criminalizing adultery; its quite orthogonal. Its the opposite of criminalizing polygyny, which is also common in the US, but that's a different issue.
      - cjsthompson 11y ago
        This is certainly what tumblr ideologues who haven't bothered checking scientific facts (behavioral biology) like to believe.
    - balls2you 11y ago
      Saudi Arabia criminalizes adultery which is "having an affair". Polygyny means you're legally married which is allowed in Saudi Arabia but having an adulterous relationship is criminal.
DanBC 11y ago
Adultery is illegal in many bits of the US.
- fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
  It is but according to the Wiki it there hasn't been a conviction in the US since 1983.
  - chmielewski 11y ago
    If you are part of the armed forces under DoD or DHS, you see people being convicted and brought up on adultery charges all the time.

by john_b 11y ago

josinalvo 11y ago

To cheat, to break your word given to a life partner, is not just distasteful. It is wrong. It makes the world a darker place, and not only to you and your partner (and that is what wrong means) I know this kind of statement is viewed with distrust. And I see why this is so. But I think some moral discussion might be good (rather than just the bland 'lets not judge') First, I am not saying that I think all marriages need to be monogamical or 'till death'. Both ideas are probably bad on average (i.e.: make the world a darker place as well, cause needless suffering). I, for one, think that promissing monogamy is a bad idea. But to break the promice of monogamy is, indeed, bad. First, it is inherently unfair: One partner (Pa) might be resisting temptations, to the benefit of the other (Pb). Pb gets benefits from increased marriage security, increase sexual availability from Pa, increased emotional availability... But does not offer the same. I mean, it would be clear that withdrawing all the money from a joint savings account is bad, right? That is the same thing... One side is doing a lot of effort to keep a mutual benefit working... To cheat is a form of exploitation.

fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
The time, place, and manner of sex or other activity that occurs between two consenting adults is none of my business whatsoever unless one of those people is my spouse. When one of those people is my spouse and the other is not me, then my problem is with my spouse, not with any website or other instrument used to facilitate the infidelity. What meaning would an agreement such as marriage have if cheating were literally impossible? >But I think some moral discussion might be good Let's discuss how we can keep from inflicting our own personal morals on those who do not share our moral philosophies; lest someone show up here and one-up us all with an even better morality than the one we already have.
- josinalvo 11y ago
  >Let's discuss how we can keep from inflicting our own personal morals on those who do not share our moral philosophies The interesting question, is, of course, which are private matters and which are matters of injustice that 'society' should intervene to fix. THE WHOLE QUESTION is whether or not cheating is 'a private matter' or 'an injustice that ...'. Just stating that it is 'private' does not seem to be an answer to the question. If I understood you correctly, your argument it 'is is private, leave it alone, else someone else will mess with other private issues'. Why do you think it belongs to the 'private' rather than 'injustice' category? > one-up us all with an even better morality than the one we already have. For me, that would be very nice indeed! Convincing moral arguments are very rare!
  - fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
    I think I was quite clear as to why a marital relationship is a private matter. I think we can agree that in society there are many different moral systems. Now I will use the words "good" and "bad" with the stipulation that these words have no inherent meaning, but instead only have the meaning that we apply to them from within our own personal moral system. You can compare another moral system to your own, and decide that it is "better" or "worse" but you cannot make an objective determination. Now, you can decide that your morality where adultery should be prohibited/prevented/punished is better for your purposes than mine where adultery is none of the government's business, but that is just your personal preference. The problem is that this may never end and there is always another fellow who is more moral than you or I or both of us, and whose morality tells him that shoes are immoral or that red-haired people are witches or something like that; and this fellow wants the government to segregate the witches for the protection of the good moral folks, and also prevent everyone from wearing shoes, even firemen. So, we have to compromise on our morality and find a set of common rules upon which most of us can agree and which will protect people from serious harm even if it allows for some behavior that makes some of us uncomfortable. Why do you think that two other peoples' marriage is some concern to you, or to society at large? And please, no references to vague concepts that we have no real definition of such as 'making the world a darker place' >For me, that would be very nice indeed! Convincing moral arguments are very rare! That's because morals are very personal, arbitrary, and often irrational.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
philwelch 11y ago
Cheating is also something that roughly 50-70% of married people do. Sex, along with food, water, and drugs, is one the basic, biological human compulsions and it's part of the human condition, for a large majority of us, to fall victim to it against our better judgment. As wrong as it is to cheat, it's even more wrong (and more harmful, which is perhaps the same thing) to invade people's privacy and expose cheating.

amyjess 11y ago

Having an affair actually is illegal in almost half the US, and in some states, it's even a felony.

balls2you 11y ago
> Having an affair actually is illegal in almost half the US, and in some states, it's even a felony. Wow! United Saudi Arabia (USA)!
- cjsthompson 11y ago
  Saudi Arabia allows polygyny which is the complete opposite of this.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    Allowing polygyny is not the opposite of criminalizing adultery; its quite orthogonal. Its the opposite of criminalizing polygyny, which is also common in the US, but that's a different issue.
    - cjsthompson 11y ago
      This is certainly what tumblr ideologues who haven't bothered checking scientific facts (behavioral biology) like to believe.
  - balls2you 11y ago
    Saudi Arabia criminalizes adultery which is "having an affair". Polygyny means you're legally married which is allowed in Saudi Arabia but having an adulterous relationship is criminal.

DanBC 11y ago

Adultery is illegal in many bits of the US.

fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
It is but according to the Wiki it there hasn't been a conviction in the US since 1983.
- chmielewski 11y ago
  If you are part of the armed forces under DoD or DHS, you see people being convicted and brought up on adultery charges all the time.