5 ms·

A petition to remove Ellen Pao as Reddit CEO: 100,000 signatures in 3 days

18 points by drdoom 11y ago

dang 11y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832474
- rory096 11y ago
  Is this post on that thread accurate? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832812
  - dang 11y ago
    Not sure exactly what you're asking, but the post was flagged by users and penalized by moderators, probably for the same reason: the story had already had a major thread on HN. Also, petitions have traditionally been treated as off topic here.
    - studentrob 11y ago
      It is too bad HN will not support an ongoing discussion among interested HN readers about an ongoing issue over arguably one of YC's most successful projects. I understand splattering the front page with > 1 link is too much. However, one persistent headline among 20 would not bother most people (aside from the powers that be who may want to quell unrest, of course). I missed earlier discussions and only came in during this one. I think the debate over how to create a successful social network, and how and where to limit free speech online while managing a large community, ought to be of interest to anyone with skin in the game. And that thread had plenty of upvotes and comments to survive beyond two hours.
      - dang 11y ago
        This story has had major threads on HN, including on the front page right now [1]. Our interest is not in quellage but in keeping the front page substantive, i.e. keeping HN HN. Big drama always brings many copycat posts and follow-ups. Most need to be treated as duplicates or drama will fill the front page, which is not what HN is for. Where to draw the line? Our answer is, have a major thread on (hopefully) the most substantive version of a story, plus a new thread when there is significant new information [2]. That's the best way we know of to balance the different factors, though we're open to a better way if anyone suggests it. It's true that it's common for a user to miss earlier discussions, as you mention, but that's a problem with HN in general. No one sees all the threads. We try to point to previous discussions when we notice them, and many HN users helpfully do so as well (greenyoda and ColinWright practically deserve medals for it). 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9840805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9840805 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9827903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9827903
AdeptusAquinas 11y ago
If they want to remove her as CEO they should leave Reddit, and hope that the loss of their traffic is enough economic pressure to call for her dismissal. Petitions are just a way to whine without committing to anything.
- msandford 11y ago
  Well, there are good odds that the investors in Reddit will see this and might consider taking corrective action. Reddit is still a growing site, so if people start leaving that might leave Reddit with growth, albeit at a slower rate. That's not necessarily all that meaningful to investors. A slight reduction in growth rate. But huge numbers of people saying "there needs to be a change" and signing a petition might actually be more productive. Since it's a visible number rather than an invisible side effect.
  - AdeptusAquinas 11y ago
    Perhaps, though a quick look at http://www.reddit.com/about http://www.reddit.com/about says that 100k isn't really a huge number for them. For now at least, its a text-book definition of a 'vocal minority'.
    - msandford 11y ago
      Yeah I'm not saying that 100k is definitely enough to get her removed or anything. But if 100k people saying "this sucks" is meaningless, imagine how much more meaningless just quitting and saying nothing is. I'm not saying that these people will accomplish their goal. But they're definitely stirring up bad publicity for Reddit. That's not a great way to get a CEO fired, but bad publicity is a lot worse for Reddit than losing 100k users.
- a3n 11y ago
  Years ago, I quit Netflix when they separated the digital and DVD offerings. "Harumph!" These days they're fine, I'm back, and it's almost the only thing I watch on my TV.
sudioStudio64 11y ago
https://youtu.be/wBIC8JTQMMQ https://youtu.be/wBIC8JTQMMQ - He Man Woman Haters Club
- kristofferR 11y ago
  This whole spectacle began because a beloved woman a lot of subreddits depended on was fired. To claim that this is about hating Pao just because she is female is absurd, it has probably more to do with her obviously not understanding reddit at all.
  - msandford 11y ago
    "We hate women! How dare you fire one!" Not exactly a cohesive portrayal of bigots.
    - sudioStudio64 11y ago
      You are so right and clever! What a clever boy you are! I'm firmly put in my place. Thank you for clearly showing the truth of the moment. Oh, oh, how wrong I was. Are you sure that there weren't any petitions to get rid of her before this weekends thing?
  - sudioStudio64 11y ago
    I remember petitions to get rid of her before this weekends freak out. Are you saying that the red pill types are not fanning these flames?
eridius 11y ago
I'm kind of appalled at how all the stories I've seen relating to this are giving credence to the various claims made here, such as how Reddit has "entered into a new age of censorship", without even making the slightest attempt to contextualize or explain how absolutely bat-shit nutty it is to make that claim. Reddit enforced its rules and shut down a few vile subreddits that were explicitly and unrepentantly harassing people. That is unambiguously a great move by Reddit. But a lot of people are suddenly screaming "censorship" and, if you read nothing but the news stories, you'd come away with the idea that those screaming "censorship" are right. This actually feels a bit reminiscent of GamerGate, which for a while was able to have news outlets report on them as if their stated goal of ethics in game journalism was actually what it was about.
- kristofferR 11y ago
  > That is unambiguously a great move by Reddit If that were the case nobody would care and protest about it. You could argue that the move was wrong and you could argue that the move was correct. However, it was clearly not unambiguously a great move. :)
  - eridius 11y ago
    Fair point. Let me qualify that: From the perspective of anyone who is not afflicted with John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory[1], this is unambiguously a great move. Sadly, there's a very vocal set of reddittors who have the worst case of the GIFT I've ever seen. These are the same people who think that it's perfectly ok to wage sustained campaigns of harassment against other people, who think it's quite alright to post vile, incredibly hurtful things to r/fatpeoplehate and r/shitniggerssay (or whatever it was called) and many other subreddits devoted to hatred, and who think that an appropriate response to a few subreddits getting banned is to start publicly labelling Ellen Pao with every single gendered, misogynistic insult they can think of (while claiming that, no, they're not sexist or misogynist, no sir no way). [1] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
    - kristofferR 11y ago

18 points by drdoom 11y ago

dang 11y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832474

rory096 11y ago
Is this post on that thread accurate? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9832812
- dang 11y ago
  Not sure exactly what you're asking, but the post was flagged by users and penalized by moderators, probably for the same reason: the story had already had a major thread on HN. Also, petitions have traditionally been treated as off topic here.
  - studentrob 11y ago
    It is too bad HN will not support an ongoing discussion among interested HN readers about an ongoing issue over arguably one of YC's most successful projects. I understand splattering the front page with > 1 link is too much. However, one persistent headline among 20 would not bother most people (aside from the powers that be who may want to quell unrest, of course). I missed earlier discussions and only came in during this one. I think the debate over how to create a successful social network, and how and where to limit free speech online while managing a large community, ought to be of interest to anyone with skin in the game. And that thread had plenty of upvotes and comments to survive beyond two hours.
    - dang 11y ago
      This story has had major threads on HN, including on the front page right now [1]. Our interest is not in quellage but in keeping the front page substantive, i.e. keeping HN HN. Big drama always brings many copycat posts and follow-ups. Most need to be treated as duplicates or drama will fill the front page, which is not what HN is for. Where to draw the line? Our answer is, have a major thread on (hopefully) the most substantive version of a story, plus a new thread when there is significant new information [2]. That's the best way we know of to balance the different factors, though we're open to a better way if anyone suggests it. It's true that it's common for a user to miss earlier discussions, as you mention, but that's a problem with HN in general. No one sees all the threads. We try to point to previous discussions when we notice them, and many HN users helpfully do so as well (greenyoda and ColinWright practically deserve medals for it). 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9840805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9840805 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9827903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9827903

AdeptusAquinas 11y ago

If they want to remove her as CEO they should leave Reddit, and hope that the loss of their traffic is enough economic pressure to call for her dismissal. Petitions are just a way to whine without committing to anything.

msandford 11y ago
Well, there are good odds that the investors in Reddit will see this and might consider taking corrective action. Reddit is still a growing site, so if people start leaving that might leave Reddit with growth, albeit at a slower rate. That's not necessarily all that meaningful to investors. A slight reduction in growth rate. But huge numbers of people saying "there needs to be a change" and signing a petition might actually be more productive. Since it's a visible number rather than an invisible side effect.
- AdeptusAquinas 11y ago
  Perhaps, though a quick look at http://www.reddit.com/about http://www.reddit.com/about says that 100k isn't really a huge number for them. For now at least, its a text-book definition of a 'vocal minority'.
  - msandford 11y ago
    Yeah I'm not saying that 100k is definitely enough to get her removed or anything. But if 100k people saying "this sucks" is meaningless, imagine how much more meaningless just quitting and saying nothing is. I'm not saying that these people will accomplish their goal. But they're definitely stirring up bad publicity for Reddit. That's not a great way to get a CEO fired, but bad publicity is a lot worse for Reddit than losing 100k users.
a3n 11y ago
Years ago, I quit Netflix when they separated the digital and DVD offerings. "Harumph!" These days they're fine, I'm back, and it's almost the only thing I watch on my TV.

sudioStudio64 11y ago

https://youtu.be/wBIC8JTQMMQ https://youtu.be/wBIC8JTQMMQ - He Man Woman Haters Club

kristofferR 11y ago
This whole spectacle began because a beloved woman a lot of subreddits depended on was fired. To claim that this is about hating Pao just because she is female is absurd, it has probably more to do with her obviously not understanding reddit at all.
- msandford 11y ago
  "We hate women! How dare you fire one!" Not exactly a cohesive portrayal of bigots.
  - sudioStudio64 11y ago
    You are so right and clever! What a clever boy you are! I'm firmly put in my place. Thank you for clearly showing the truth of the moment. Oh, oh, how wrong I was. Are you sure that there weren't any petitions to get rid of her before this weekends thing?
- sudioStudio64 11y ago
  I remember petitions to get rid of her before this weekends freak out. Are you saying that the red pill types are not fanning these flames?

eridius 11y ago

I'm kind of appalled at how all the stories I've seen relating to this are giving credence to the various claims made here, such as how Reddit has "entered into a new age of censorship", without even making the slightest attempt to contextualize or explain how absolutely bat-shit nutty it is to make that claim. Reddit enforced its rules and shut down a few vile subreddits that were explicitly and unrepentantly harassing people. That is unambiguously a great move by Reddit. But a lot of people are suddenly screaming "censorship" and, if you read nothing but the news stories, you'd come away with the idea that those screaming "censorship" are right. This actually feels a bit reminiscent of GamerGate, which for a while was able to have news outlets report on them as if their stated goal of ethics in game journalism was actually what it was about.

kristofferR 11y ago
> That is unambiguously a great move by Reddit If that were the case nobody would care and protest about it. You could argue that the move was wrong and you could argue that the move was correct. However, it was clearly not unambiguously a great move. :)
- eridius 11y ago
  Fair point. Let me qualify that: From the perspective of anyone who is not afflicted with John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory[1], this is unambiguously a great move. Sadly, there's a very vocal set of reddittors who have the worst case of the GIFT I've ever seen. These are the same people who think that it's perfectly ok to wage sustained campaigns of harassment against other people, who think it's quite alright to post vile, incredibly hurtful things to r/fatpeoplehate and r/shitniggerssay (or whatever it was called) and many other subreddits devoted to hatred, and who think that an appropriate response to a few subreddits getting banned is to start publicly labelling Ellen Pao with every single gendered, misogynistic insult they can think of (while claiming that, no, they're not sexist or misogynist, no sir no way). [1] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
  - kristofferR 11y ago