7 ms·

If it would be a browser based solution, the number of people who try it would be 1000x higher.

by wemysh 11y ago

narrowrail 11y ago
You mean browser-based, as in provided by a server (aka centralized)? Perhaps there is a way to daemonize the process and run it headless on a server with web access, but the whole point is no central server to depend on. Edit: I guess I don't understand how this project, which makes one of its key features to be be web server less, would be accessed by web browser without doing what I suggested above. Could you explain?
- nl 11y ago
  WebRTC let's you build server less web apps.
  - narrowrail 11y ago
    Hmm. I still don't get it. You mean build another project entirely, but base it on a web browser using WebRTC?
    - nl 11y ago
      I think it's a terrible idea for many reasons. Cite FriendFeed, Diaspora, Identica etc. But at the same time, if someone wants to try: yes, it needs to be browser based, and the lack of a server doesn't need to be a limiting factor anymore.
  - liamzebedee 11y ago
    Not really - you still need the centralised signalling server for initial connection setup between peers. And this is needed for every new connection.
    - nl 11y ago
      Yes. And? It's like you'll also need DNS, which isn't decentralized either. If someone wanted to write this as a WebRTC-based decentralised version there is nothing stopping them using something the like the public signalling servers that Mozilla uses for their Hello service. Also, if some users wanted to run a signalling server themselves, that's ok too.
      - liamzebedee 11y ago
        I get your comparison, however DNS is not actually that fundamental to P2P networks, all you need are IP addresses (at least not after the bootstrapping phase). Whereas this is making the entire connection setup dependent on these signalling servers. You're right, there are public signalling servers and such. I just wish we weren't so restricted in setting up direct connections, such that you could do it through your bootstrapping peer in the network.
- natrius 11y ago
  Browser-based, serverless apps are what Ethereum is all about. You run a daemon on your computer that maintains a blockchain, messaging system (Whisper), and content storage system (Swarm). That daemon exposes an RPC interface so local processes can get data from it. The most common result is an HTML, CSS, and Javascript bundle that is a full-fledged application without a server, because its backend is peer-to-peer. Web apps aren't a requirement—you could build a traditional desktop app that talks to the Ethereum daemon as well. But using the application runtime that everyone already has installed lowers the barrier to entry, so it's what most successful projects will choose.
  - narrowrail 11y ago
    >You run a daemon on your computer I think you might notice that in the comment you are replying to I specifically mention using a daemon? Anyway, running a daemon still requires one to download software which seems to be the point of complaint for some people with this project.
    - natrius 11y ago
      Just sharing a concrete example that exists today. Yes, a download is still required.
  - drivingmenuts 11y ago
    Sounds a lot like Freenet.
- nly 11y ago
  What's wrong with that? Federation makes a lot of sense.
curiousjorge 11y ago
what about a chrome extension? or a firefox extension? I'm still lost as to how the whole blockchain thing that is supposed to store pseudonyms and their reputation thing works, I blame my fear of math and calculus to really be able to dive deep into how such algorithm/processes work.

If it would be a browser based solution, the number of people who try it would be 1000x higher.

by wemysh 11y ago

If it would be a browser based solution, the number of people who try it would be 1000x higher.

You mean browser-based, as in provided by a server (aka centralized)? Perhaps there is a way to daemonize the process and run it headless on a server with web access, but the whole point is no central server to depend on. Edit: I guess I don't understand how this project, which makes one of its key features to be be web server less, would be accessed by web browser without doing what I suggested above. Could you explain?

nl 11y ago
WebRTC let's you build server less web apps.
- narrowrail 11y ago
  Hmm. I still don't get it. You mean build another project entirely, but base it on a web browser using WebRTC?
  - nl 11y ago
    I think it's a terrible idea for many reasons. Cite FriendFeed, Diaspora, Identica etc. But at the same time, if someone wants to try: yes, it needs to be browser based, and the lack of a server doesn't need to be a limiting factor anymore.
- liamzebedee 11y ago
  Not really - you still need the centralised signalling server for initial connection setup between peers. And this is needed for every new connection.
  - nl 11y ago
    Yes. And? It's like you'll also need DNS, which isn't decentralized either. If someone wanted to write this as a WebRTC-based decentralised version there is nothing stopping them using something the like the public signalling servers that Mozilla uses for their Hello service. Also, if some users wanted to run a signalling server themselves, that's ok too.
    - liamzebedee 11y ago
      I get your comparison, however DNS is not actually that fundamental to P2P networks, all you need are IP addresses (at least not after the bootstrapping phase). Whereas this is making the entire connection setup dependent on these signalling servers. You're right, there are public signalling servers and such. I just wish we weren't so restricted in setting up direct connections, such that you could do it through your bootstrapping peer in the network.
natrius 11y ago
Browser-based, serverless apps are what Ethereum is all about. You run a daemon on your computer that maintains a blockchain, messaging system (Whisper), and content storage system (Swarm). That daemon exposes an RPC interface so local processes can get data from it. The most common result is an HTML, CSS, and Javascript bundle that is a full-fledged application without a server, because its backend is peer-to-peer. Web apps aren't a requirement—you could build a traditional desktop app that talks to the Ethereum daemon as well. But using the application runtime that everyone already has installed lowers the barrier to entry, so it's what most successful projects will choose.
- narrowrail 11y ago
  >You run a daemon on your computer I think you might notice that in the comment you are replying to I specifically mention using a daemon? Anyway, running a daemon still requires one to download software which seems to be the point of complaint for some people with this project.
  - natrius 11y ago
    Just sharing a concrete example that exists today. Yes, a download is still required.
- drivingmenuts 11y ago
  Sounds a lot like Freenet.
nly 11y ago
What's wrong with that? Federation makes a lot of sense.

curiousjorge 11y ago

what about a chrome extension? or a firefox extension? I'm still lost as to how the whole blockchain thing that is supposed to store pseudonyms and their reputation thing works, I blame my fear of math and calculus to really be able to dive deep into how such algorithm/processes work.