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ie. they have such an extreme scale that often what's best for them is also unique to them, so doesn't really work/apply/be-appreciated anywhere else. They want

ie. they have such an extreme scale that often what's best for them is also unique to them, so doesn't really work/apply/be-appreciated anywhere else. They want sharp folks. But because so many, and because folks at top are so sharp, and because their scale is so gigantic, they want sharp drones. Color inside the lines, just really really really fast and perfect. Getting something 1% wrong costs them millions more than otherwise. Which is different than the mindset of the vast majority of other companies where getting something even 91% right means making millions of dollars more for the shareholders, than otherwise. The rest is details.

mkramlich 11y ago
Google seems perfect for two kinds of programmers/engineers: 1. you are 20-something, white or Asian, fresh out of college, Jewish/Stanford/Ivy/otherwise-2nd-gen-pampered-background, male, maybe still in college or 1st startup AND you are willing to move anywhere they want, do anything they tell you, you have no spouse, no kids, no ill parents, no local geo investments, no major illnesses, not multi-careered, you're still impressed by Shiny/Words, etc. 2. you are 30/40-ish but now established as a Major Name (Linus, Vint, Guido, etc.) and/or owner of a company Google wants to buy, and therefore $M+ talks loudly if you don't fit (approximately) into one of those two boxes, then Google is a non-ideal fit for you META: downvote me all you want HN, I do not care what the GroupMind's Allowed Opinion algorithm here thinks anymore
- S4M 11y ago
  How about category 3: 30+, has a family, wants a stable job with good pay, but not crazy hours?
  - mkramlich 11y ago
    good point. reasonable. the making of generalizations does not outlaw other generalized groups or categories. an entire side discussion about Bayes predictions could be entered here. where having a few rough rules would yield a 90% beneficial prediction. add a 2nd rule or exception boosts your yield to 95%. add a 3rd rule/exception boosts your yield to 97%. and so on...
  - QuercusMax 11y ago
    Ding ding ding! That's me to a T. I'm in my early 30s, with a family, and just started in MTV this past Monday. I spent 11 years at a small company in Cleveland, and had reached the top of the engineering ladder there. Had the opportunity to move out to Silicon Valley, where I have much more varied career prospects if I decide Google isn't for me after my shares vest. On my team are two very experienced engineers (one's been at Google for longer than all but 38 employees), and it will be a great opportunity to learn from some really great people and grow my skills, which had been stagnating due to lack of challenge at my last company. There was never any pressure at my last job to work crazy hours, so that wasn't really a factor in moving per se; but Google is big on work-life balance, which is super important to me.
- icelancer 11y ago
  Why does your race matter in the first point?
  - mkramlich 11y ago
    observation of reality. not theory. not wish/want/should/ought. actual reality. trust me, if you're smart and wise then the older you get you should be getting more and more reality-based in your decisions. not theory. not ideal. not PC. reality.
    - dylanjermiah 11y ago
      Do you have any data to support that?
      - kibwen 11y ago
        Google has their own page on employee diversity: http://www.google.com/diversity/index.html#chart http://www.google.com/diversity/index.html#chart If you click the "Tech" tab, they self-report as 59% White, 35% Asian, 2% Hispanic, 1% Black. Note that the ethnicity data is US-only (the gender data is global).
        icelancer 11y ago
        That a lot of white and Asian people work there isn't evidence that it is only a good place for white and Asian people to work there, however.
        kibwen 11y ago
        Indeed, you'd need to ask non-white, non-Asian employees about their experiences there. Here's a post from November 2014 about a black woman's experience at Google: https://medium.com/thelist/the-other-side-of-diversity-1bb3de2f053e https://medium.com/thelist/the-other-side-of-diversity-1bb3d... It's a very interesting read, I recommend it.
- yongjik 11y ago
  Since this guy has no clue, let me clarify as someone who worked at Google until recently: Any Google employee who spews something like "Google is perfect if you are 20-something, white or Asian, Jewish/blah blah background male..." will be (with high probability) asked by his[1] coworkers WTF he is talking about, and would he please shut up or learn to open his mouth without insulting his coworkers. If the behavior continues, it may or may not result in disciplinary action, though the consensus seemed that there aren't enough disciplinary action. (I guess it depends on who you ask.) Contrary to popular conception, Google employs a lot of thoughtful people and they want to make their workplace a better place to live and work. [1] I'd normally say "their", but it seems "his" here is more coherent with my... "observation of reality."
  - corndoge 11y ago
    May I ask which Google location you were/are located at?
    - yongjik 11y ago
      Mountain View. (DISCLAIMER: It's a vast office space, so different part of the organization might have different cultures. My perception is from my personal experience as well as from reading through internal Google+, mailing lists, etc.)
      - honest_joe 11y ago
        Hearing this from a korean that moved to US is funny :-)
  - logingone 11y ago
    "Any Google employee who spews something like" -- I don't see that he was commenting on what Google employees say.
    - mkramlich 11y ago
      exactly
- rattray 11y ago
  While I didn't love your tone throughout, I downvoted for the "META" comment.
- notNow 11y ago
  I'm glad that you spoke your mind however unpopular even though I disagree with some of your findings/conclusions but it's really brave of you to stand up to the downvote goons on HN that all they care about is social engineering, suppressing free speech and stifling constructive debate.
on_and_off 11y ago
It might apply to some positions like SRE, but surely for an engineer working on one of their mobiles apps, there are still many problems to solve.

mkramlich 11y ago

Google seems perfect for two kinds of programmers/engineers: 1. you are 20-something, white or Asian, fresh out of college, Jewish/Stanford/Ivy/otherwise-2nd-gen-pampered-background, male, maybe still in college or 1st startup AND you are willing to move anywhere they want, do anything they tell you, you have no spouse, no kids, no ill parents, no local geo investments, no major illnesses, not multi-careered, you're still impressed by Shiny/Words, etc. 2. you are 30/40-ish but now established as a Major Name (Linus, Vint, Guido, etc.) and/or owner of a company Google wants to buy, and therefore $M+ talks loudly if you don't fit (approximately) into one of those two boxes, then Google is a non-ideal fit for you META: downvote me all you want HN, I do not care what the GroupMind's Allowed Opinion algorithm here thinks anymore

S4M 11y ago
How about category 3: 30+, has a family, wants a stable job with good pay, but not crazy hours?
- mkramlich 11y ago
  good point. reasonable. the making of generalizations does not outlaw other generalized groups or categories. an entire side discussion about Bayes predictions could be entered here. where having a few rough rules would yield a 90% beneficial prediction. add a 2nd rule or exception boosts your yield to 95%. add a 3rd rule/exception boosts your yield to 97%. and so on...
- QuercusMax 11y ago
  Ding ding ding! That's me to a T. I'm in my early 30s, with a family, and just started in MTV this past Monday. I spent 11 years at a small company in Cleveland, and had reached the top of the engineering ladder there. Had the opportunity to move out to Silicon Valley, where I have much more varied career prospects if I decide Google isn't for me after my shares vest. On my team are two very experienced engineers (one's been at Google for longer than all but 38 employees), and it will be a great opportunity to learn from some really great people and grow my skills, which had been stagnating due to lack of challenge at my last company. There was never any pressure at my last job to work crazy hours, so that wasn't really a factor in moving per se; but Google is big on work-life balance, which is super important to me.
icelancer 11y ago
Why does your race matter in the first point?
- mkramlich 11y ago
  observation of reality. not theory. not wish/want/should/ought. actual reality. trust me, if you're smart and wise then the older you get you should be getting more and more reality-based in your decisions. not theory. not ideal. not PC. reality.
  - dylanjermiah 11y ago
    Do you have any data to support that?
    - kibwen 11y ago
      Google has their own page on employee diversity: http://www.google.com/diversity/index.html#chart http://www.google.com/diversity/index.html#chart If you click the "Tech" tab, they self-report as 59% White, 35% Asian, 2% Hispanic, 1% Black. Note that the ethnicity data is US-only (the gender data is global).
      - icelancer 11y ago
        That a lot of white and Asian people work there isn't evidence that it is only a good place for white and Asian people to work there, however.
        kibwen 11y ago
        Indeed, you'd need to ask non-white, non-Asian employees about their experiences there. Here's a post from November 2014 about a black woman's experience at Google: https://medium.com/thelist/the-other-side-of-diversity-1bb3de2f053e https://medium.com/thelist/the-other-side-of-diversity-1bb3d... It's a very interesting read, I recommend it.
yongjik 11y ago
Since this guy has no clue, let me clarify as someone who worked at Google until recently: Any Google employee who spews something like "Google is perfect if you are 20-something, white or Asian, Jewish/blah blah background male..." will be (with high probability) asked by his[1] coworkers WTF he is talking about, and would he please shut up or learn to open his mouth without insulting his coworkers. If the behavior continues, it may or may not result in disciplinary action, though the consensus seemed that there aren't enough disciplinary action. (I guess it depends on who you ask.) Contrary to popular conception, Google employs a lot of thoughtful people and they want to make their workplace a better place to live and work. [1] I'd normally say "their", but it seems "his" here is more coherent with my... "observation of reality."
- corndoge 11y ago
  May I ask which Google location you were/are located at?
  - yongjik 11y ago
    Mountain View. (DISCLAIMER: It's a vast office space, so different part of the organization might have different cultures. My perception is from my personal experience as well as from reading through internal Google+, mailing lists, etc.)
    - honest_joe 11y ago
      Hearing this from a korean that moved to US is funny :-)
- logingone 11y ago
  "Any Google employee who spews something like" -- I don't see that he was commenting on what Google employees say.
  - mkramlich 11y ago
    exactly
rattray 11y ago
While I didn't love your tone throughout, I downvoted for the "META" comment.
notNow 11y ago
I'm glad that you spoke your mind however unpopular even though I disagree with some of your findings/conclusions but it's really brave of you to stand up to the downvote goons on HN that all they care about is social engineering, suppressing free speech and stifling constructive debate.

on_and_off 11y ago

It might apply to some positions like SRE, but surely for an engineer working on one of their mobiles apps, there are still many problems to solve.