5 ms·

How about remote teams? At previous startup we had guys from: Germany, Russia, US, Romania, Brasil, Ukraine, Philippines. Our "cultural fit" was just about: B

by DevPad 11y ago

How about remote teams? At previous startup we had guys from: Germany, Russia, US, Romania, Brasil, Ukraine, Philippines. Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker (innovative, open-minded).

nileshtrivedi 11y ago
And be able to communicate well in a shared language - most likely English.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- harperlee 11y ago
  Good point. Not knowing english well enough is a good technical barrier. I've been working on a project in english for the past two months, and although I speak and write sufficiently good and fluently, I still see a huge distance in front of me. I can't think, express and discuss so easily. It's like I've slept badly for some days. It's frustratingly. And it takes time to overcome, so any test period that you have with a candidate won't be enough for that to be overcome (not that I propose hiring people for a couple of years to see whether their english levels improve, mind you)
EliRivers 11y ago
Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker. Why did you put "cultural fit" in quotes? Your criterion is just as poorly defined as everyone else's "cultural fit" criteria and, just like theirs, acts as a way to simply exclude people because they're not like you.
- savanaly 11y ago
  I believe using quotes like he did is shorthand to indicate that you think the term is illegitimate and a bit silly, so you may be in agreement with him.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- lordnacho 11y ago
  "Be a hacker" is not cultural though. It's skill. He's saying they are just using skill as a criterion.
  - EliRivers 11y ago
    WTF are you talking about? "Hacker" is entirely cultural. It was in its infancy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture) ) and it is now. Part of it's current culture is the pretence that it's all about skill; it's not. The completely lacking in skill won't get recognised as part of it, but it's attitude and style that buys admission to that club. These days, software places that are looking for "hackers" generally mean they're looking for inexperienced youngsters who have dabbled in a handful of currently trending web frameworks, but have "Agile" written on the crumpled t-shirt they will wear to the interview. The world's finest software engineer could turn up but because that person has decades of experience, plans their software before they write it, children in college and a liking for going home at five, the world's finest software engineer will be rejected on grounds of "culture fit". HN is heaving with people who have immersion baptised themselves in this particular kool-aid.
    - lordnacho 11y ago
      A subculture that requires you to have a specific skill...
      - EliRivers 11y ago
        Any skill. There are bio-hackers. Lock-hackers. Engine-hackers. Clothing-hackers. On and on and on. The skill has become irrelevant. Just any skill. Attitude and style is now what makes it "hacker".
        lordnacho 11y ago
        Must be a changing thing. I've always thought "hacker" without qualifiers meant "person who can code".
raindev 11y ago
"Guys" is an exclusive label.
- setitimer 11y ago
  Triggered!
- chapium 11y ago
  It all depends on context. "I'm going to go hang out with the guys." yes, exclusive. "Hey guys, I'm going to work." not exclusive. Try focusing on the meaning being conveyed and not the glyphs representing it.
  - raindev 11y ago
    I don't think the issue is as simple as that. Here is more on the topic: https://subfictional.com/2012/07/02/language-matters-stop-using-guys-to-address-mix-gender-groups/ https://subfictional.com/2012/07/02/language-matters-stop-us...
    - throw_away 11y ago
      Douglas Hofstadter wrote a classic essay on this as well: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html
      - jschwartzi 11y ago
        This one is right up there with A Modest Proposal.
    - ta92929 11y ago
      The strangest part of that article is this: I understand how ingrained the “guys” habit might be for some of you. It was for me. After several months of concerted, conscious effort, I still slip and say it on oc- casion. So even the author herself used the word with completely gender neutral intent, but then she insists that others can't. It's like she's looking for reasons to be offended.

by DevPad 11y ago

How about remote teams? At previous startup we had guys from: Germany, Russia, US, Romania, Brasil, Ukraine, Philippines. Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker (innovative, open-minded).

nileshtrivedi 11y ago

And be able to communicate well in a shared language - most likely English.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
harperlee 11y ago
Good point. Not knowing english well enough is a good technical barrier. I've been working on a project in english for the past two months, and although I speak and write sufficiently good and fluently, I still see a huge distance in front of me. I can't think, express and discuss so easily. It's like I've slept badly for some days. It's frustratingly. And it takes time to overcome, so any test period that you have with a candidate won't be enough for that to be overcome (not that I propose hiring people for a couple of years to see whether their english levels improve, mind you)

EliRivers 11y ago

Our "cultural fit" was just about: Be a Hacker. Why did you put "cultural fit" in quotes? Your criterion is just as poorly defined as everyone else's "cultural fit" criteria and, just like theirs, acts as a way to simply exclude people because they're not like you.

savanaly 11y ago
I believe using quotes like he did is shorthand to indicate that you think the term is illegitimate and a bit silly, so you may be in agreement with him.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
lordnacho 11y ago
"Be a hacker" is not cultural though. It's skill. He's saying they are just using skill as a criterion.
- EliRivers 11y ago
  WTF are you talking about? "Hacker" is entirely cultural. It was in its infancy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture) ) and it is now. Part of it's current culture is the pretence that it's all about skill; it's not. The completely lacking in skill won't get recognised as part of it, but it's attitude and style that buys admission to that club. These days, software places that are looking for "hackers" generally mean they're looking for inexperienced youngsters who have dabbled in a handful of currently trending web frameworks, but have "Agile" written on the crumpled t-shirt they will wear to the interview. The world's finest software engineer could turn up but because that person has decades of experience, plans their software before they write it, children in college and a liking for going home at five, the world's finest software engineer will be rejected on grounds of "culture fit". HN is heaving with people who have immersion baptised themselves in this particular kool-aid.
  - lordnacho 11y ago
    A subculture that requires you to have a specific skill...
    - EliRivers 11y ago
      Any skill. There are bio-hackers. Lock-hackers. Engine-hackers. Clothing-hackers. On and on and on. The skill has become irrelevant. Just any skill. Attitude and style is now what makes it "hacker".
      - lordnacho 11y ago
        Must be a changing thing. I've always thought "hacker" without qualifiers meant "person who can code".

raindev 11y ago

"Guys" is an exclusive label.

setitimer 11y ago
Triggered!
chapium 11y ago
It all depends on context. "I'm going to go hang out with the guys." yes, exclusive. "Hey guys, I'm going to work." not exclusive. Try focusing on the meaning being conveyed and not the glyphs representing it.
- raindev 11y ago
  I don't think the issue is as simple as that. Here is more on the topic: https://subfictional.com/2012/07/02/language-matters-stop-using-guys-to-address-mix-gender-groups/ https://subfictional.com/2012/07/02/language-matters-stop-us...
  - throw_away 11y ago
    Douglas Hofstadter wrote a classic essay on this as well: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html
    - jschwartzi 11y ago
      This one is right up there with A Modest Proposal.
  - ta92929 11y ago
    The strangest part of that article is this: I understand how ingrained the “guys” habit might be for some of you. It was for me. After several months of concerted, conscious effort, I still slip and say it on oc- casion. So even the author herself used the word with completely gender neutral intent, but then she insists that others can't. It's like she's looking for reasons to be offended.