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The name is silly, yes, but I do wonder if this kind of thing even accomplishes its stated goals. I've known a few programmers-who-are-women who find the laser-

The name is silly, yes, but I do wonder if this kind of thing even accomplishes its stated goals. I've known a few programmers-who-are-women who find the laser-focus on Women Can Program Too to be annoying ("yes, I'm a woman, get over it"), insulting ("no shit, are you implying I couldn't?") or outright counterproductive ("it makes it sound like tech is some sexist hellhole that they have to beg women to even consider"). Like, I'm all for more people of whatever demographic feeling welcome in technology (and any other industry, natch). It's not clear to me whether this kind of PR actually accomplishes that, or does nothing because it's not addressing the more important yet more illegible things ultimately that keep women less interested in going into tech, or actively harms the cause through the sexist implication that it's so special and noteworthy for women to be interested in technology.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Women in programming should find it offensive because it changes how they are viewed. Generally, the more help a sub group is seen being given to fit into the larger group, the less the larger group thinks that the sub group belongs on their own merits. Add in incidents like Donglegate and people will begin to get a foundation to ground their biases which were originally unfounded.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Wow, i'm as far as possible from the modern internet feminist as you can get, but you just managed to create an amazingly accurate example of mansplaining. This project is a dialogue between women. What anyone else thinks of it is irrelevant.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    >What anyone else thinks of it is irrelevant. I use to live not caring, having been told to not care what others thought about you. Then I realize just how much it does matter. Also, I was talking about grandparents comment of "laser-focus on Women Can Program Too", not this project specifically.
- convexfunction 11y ago
  "Women in programming should..." Hm. :\
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    Which is to say "Based on the factors that I think would make some stance insulting/offensive to some group, this insert topic fits enough of those standards for the group women in programming that I expect them to view it as offensive," (using the usage of expect meaning "I foresee", not "I demand"). Phrase policing tends to be a tactic to distract being that it is easy to find phrases in English that can be presented to mean something different. Take the "I expected the car to be washed." It means something different when talking about visiting someone who loves washing their car and does so most every sunny day vs. buying a car and finding it dirty. It can easily be made to sound demanding even when there was no such intention.
    - convexfunction 11y ago
      Eh, sorry. I do basically agree with you.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

Women in programming should find it offensive because it changes how they are viewed. Generally, the more help a sub group is seen being given to fit into the larger group, the less the larger group thinks that the sub group belongs on their own merits. Add in incidents like Donglegate and people will begin to get a foundation to ground their biases which were originally unfounded.

Mithaldu 11y ago
Wow, i'm as far as possible from the modern internet feminist as you can get, but you just managed to create an amazingly accurate example of mansplaining. This project is a dialogue between women. What anyone else thinks of it is irrelevant.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  >What anyone else thinks of it is irrelevant. I use to live not caring, having been told to not care what others thought about you. Then I realize just how much it does matter. Also, I was talking about grandparents comment of "laser-focus on Women Can Program Too", not this project specifically.
convexfunction 11y ago
"Women in programming should..." Hm. :\
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  Which is to say "Based on the factors that I think would make some stance insulting/offensive to some group, this insert topic fits enough of those standards for the group women in programming that I expect them to view it as offensive," (using the usage of expect meaning "I foresee", not "I demand"). Phrase policing tends to be a tactic to distract being that it is easy to find phrases in English that can be presented to mean something different. Take the "I expected the car to be washed." It means something different when talking about visiting someone who loves washing their car and does so most every sunny day vs. buying a car and finding it dirty. It can easily be made to sound demanding even when there was no such intention.
  - convexfunction 11y ago
    Eh, sorry. I do basically agree with you.