5 ms·

I feel like I follow this template as well. Except, I like to add a small self assessment at the beginning of the interview. Like: Q: On a scale from 1 t

I feel like I follow this template as well. Except, I like to add a small self assessment at the beginning of the interview. Like: Q: On a scale from 1 to 10 (1 being low) how do you rate yourself on "Programming Language Du Jour"? Then I can see if their self assessment is inline with mine. Which can help in reviewing the resume. I also like to ask for them to choose a project in the past to talk about, because then it's easy to see what they are passionate about. Or easily tell if they are choosing to talk about something because they think, you think, it's cool.

EliRivers 11y ago
I was asked by a hip, happening, popular web-app related startup to rate myself in C++. I pointed out that Bjarne Stroustrup rated himself 7 out of 10 once. I wasn't as good as him, and I wasn't nearly as good as him, which left me the field of 5 and below. I can guarantee that some ham-fisted chancer who'd flicked through the "Teach Yourself C++" chapter summaries put himself down as an 8, though.
- stygiansonic 11y ago
  Agreed - the answer to this question is really the result of how much one thinks one knows. Because a little knowledge can result in false confidence, those that rate highly will fall into two categories: Those that actually know, and those that don't. If the interviewer can distinguish between these two categories, then what value does the question add? If the interviewer cannot and is relying on the answer to this question (even partially), then it's an example of relying on a false signal. Whenever I'm asked this question, I always respond with the following questions: 1) What does a "10" mean? 2) What does a "1" mean? 3) What's the difference between 5, 6 and 7? 4) (Optional, this could easily come across as being snarky) What's the range of levels in your team/org/dept for this metric?
  - doragcoder 11y ago
    I would welcome the challenge in what rating is what. Because I know they are highly subjective. This is not an adversarial question, it's mainly used as an indicator to gauge where to direct the interview. I like to interview people across a range of subjects (as I have not had the chance to hire a pure specialist). So knowing what they feel confident in answering will help me tailor the questions to what their perceived strengths are. So I think it gives me a feel of your confidence level in a language. If you flipped through a "Teach yourself C++ in 24 hours" book once, then rate yourself a 10 on a scale from one to 10. Then not answering basic C++ questions will raise red flags. If they answer a "1" on something. (And I re-assure them that answering 1 is perfectly ok). Then I can feel a lot more comfortable giving them more hints, or a lot more supporting detail in a question that they have indicated they are not very strong in.
  - reagency 11y ago
    You are absolutely right, but your behavior would offend the kind of person who thought it was a good question in the first place.
- kruczek 11y ago
  > I can guarantee that some ham-fisted chancer who'd flicked through the "Teach Yourself C++" chapter summaries put himself down as an 8, though. It's very easy to filter out these guys though. I had one such come to my interview - on a scale 1-10 (10=best) the guy put 8s, 9s and 10s for several programming languages (C++, C#, Java, a few others); and that guy was fresh out of college. Then during the interview it turned out the guy knows exactly nothing, even when I tried to talk with him about the most basic concepts of OOP (like, what is a class or an object), he couldn't provide any meaningful answer to lead the conversation further. I have no idea how he hoped to pass an interview, perhaps he thought there wouldn't be anything beyond the online form to fill.
stygiansonic 11y ago
Talking about a project seems fine to me. But the self-assessment on a scale of 1-10 just seems like a quick way out for the interviewer and can only serve to find fault with the candidate and to me, doesn't seem like it provides much information. For example, what does 10 mean? Does that mean that they have mastered the language (and all of its minute details, implementation, etc.) and would find it impossible to learn more? Knowing that, the only possible individuals who would think about rating themselves a 10 are: 1) The language designers themselves. (Possibly not even - see the comment below about Bjarne Stroustrup) 2) Those that think they know the language so well that they would rate themselves a 10. You're probably not interviewing people from group (1). (Or if you were, you wouldn't ask them this question as it would reflect more on yourself than the candidate) So, if someone rates themselves a 10, you can probably assume they are in group (2) or have otherwise misunderstood the question. I don't know for sure, but I feel there are better ways to rate a candidate other than asking them a question, that, if they answer "10" on, means they aren't suitable and are likely overrating themselves. So where does that leave us? Most people who are comfortable with the language are likely to rate themselves a 6, 7 or 8, being conservative and not wanting to expose themselves to a tricky follow-up question should they self-rate too highly. Again - this seems to be leading toward gotchas, and seems adversarial. If you're going to ask for the self-rating, at least limit it to something less fine-grained: Beginner, Novice, Expert/experienced/whatever, so you have an idea for the candidate's comfort level with a particular language. A 1-10 rating is way too granular (what's the difference between 3 and 4?). But really, I think asking the candidate to rate themselves is really just a spin on the "What's your greatest weakness?" question - it's asking the interviewee to do the interviewer's job.
- ericlippert 11y ago
  The solution to this problem is to follow up the question with "oh, so you're an eight, great, what is something that a seven would have difficulty with?" Make them calibrate the scale for you.
  - reagency 11y ago
    Why not just give them a scale and ask them where they fit? Quizzing them about in the structure of the scale is awkward game-playing.

EliRivers 11y ago

I was asked by a hip, happening, popular web-app related startup to rate myself in C++. I pointed out that Bjarne Stroustrup rated himself 7 out of 10 once. I wasn't as good as him, and I wasn't nearly as good as him, which left me the field of 5 and below. I can guarantee that some ham-fisted chancer who'd flicked through the "Teach Yourself C++" chapter summaries put himself down as an 8, though.

stygiansonic 11y ago
Agreed - the answer to this question is really the result of how much one thinks one knows. Because a little knowledge can result in false confidence, those that rate highly will fall into two categories: Those that actually know, and those that don't. If the interviewer can distinguish between these two categories, then what value does the question add? If the interviewer cannot and is relying on the answer to this question (even partially), then it's an example of relying on a false signal. Whenever I'm asked this question, I always respond with the following questions: 1) What does a "10" mean? 2) What does a "1" mean? 3) What's the difference between 5, 6 and 7? 4) (Optional, this could easily come across as being snarky) What's the range of levels in your team/org/dept for this metric?
- doragcoder 11y ago
  I would welcome the challenge in what rating is what. Because I know they are highly subjective. This is not an adversarial question, it's mainly used as an indicator to gauge where to direct the interview. I like to interview people across a range of subjects (as I have not had the chance to hire a pure specialist). So knowing what they feel confident in answering will help me tailor the questions to what their perceived strengths are. So I think it gives me a feel of your confidence level in a language. If you flipped through a "Teach yourself C++ in 24 hours" book once, then rate yourself a 10 on a scale from one to 10. Then not answering basic C++ questions will raise red flags. If they answer a "1" on something. (And I re-assure them that answering 1 is perfectly ok). Then I can feel a lot more comfortable giving them more hints, or a lot more supporting detail in a question that they have indicated they are not very strong in.
- reagency 11y ago
  You are absolutely right, but your behavior would offend the kind of person who thought it was a good question in the first place.
kruczek 11y ago
> I can guarantee that some ham-fisted chancer who'd flicked through the "Teach Yourself C++" chapter summaries put himself down as an 8, though. It's very easy to filter out these guys though. I had one such come to my interview - on a scale 1-10 (10=best) the guy put 8s, 9s and 10s for several programming languages (C++, C#, Java, a few others); and that guy was fresh out of college. Then during the interview it turned out the guy knows exactly nothing, even when I tried to talk with him about the most basic concepts of OOP (like, what is a class or an object), he couldn't provide any meaningful answer to lead the conversation further. I have no idea how he hoped to pass an interview, perhaps he thought there wouldn't be anything beyond the online form to fill.

stygiansonic 11y ago

Talking about a project seems fine to me. But the self-assessment on a scale of 1-10 just seems like a quick way out for the interviewer and can only serve to find fault with the candidate and to me, doesn't seem like it provides much information. For example, what does 10 mean? Does that mean that they have mastered the language (and all of its minute details, implementation, etc.) and would find it impossible to learn more? Knowing that, the only possible individuals who would think about rating themselves a 10 are: 1) The language designers themselves. (Possibly not even - see the comment below about Bjarne Stroustrup) 2) Those that think they know the language so well that they would rate themselves a 10. You're probably not interviewing people from group (1). (Or if you were, you wouldn't ask them this question as it would reflect more on yourself than the candidate) So, if someone rates themselves a 10, you can probably assume they are in group (2) or have otherwise misunderstood the question. I don't know for sure, but I feel there are better ways to rate a candidate other than asking them a question, that, if they answer "10" on, means they aren't suitable and are likely overrating themselves. So where does that leave us? Most people who are comfortable with the language are likely to rate themselves a 6, 7 or 8, being conservative and not wanting to expose themselves to a tricky follow-up question should they self-rate too highly. Again - this seems to be leading toward gotchas, and seems adversarial. If you're going to ask for the self-rating, at least limit it to something less fine-grained: Beginner, Novice, Expert/experienced/whatever, so you have an idea for the candidate's comfort level with a particular language. A 1-10 rating is way too granular (what's the difference between 3 and 4?). But really, I think asking the candidate to rate themselves is really just a spin on the "What's your greatest weakness?" question - it's asking the interviewee to do the interviewer's job.

ericlippert 11y ago
The solution to this problem is to follow up the question with "oh, so you're an eight, great, what is something that a seven would have difficulty with?" Make them calibrate the scale for you.
- reagency 11y ago
  Why not just give them a scale and ask them where they fit? Quizzing them about in the structure of the scale is awkward game-playing.