5 ms·

Because tarsnap is cheap, incredibly well documented, open source, and run by an awesome guy. It's an all around win-win.

stephenr 11y ago
Rsync.net is even cheaper, has no requirement for a custom client, and arguably are more dependable because they're not just reselling S3 Edit: not to mention they offer actual support not just "contact the author" email link as a last resort.
- GhotiFish 11y ago
  I contacted the author today. He responded to me in 30 seconds.
  - vacri 11y ago
    I assume he still has to sleep, at least on some days. :)
  - stephenr 11y ago
    Try in 18 hours. Can you call him when something fails? I'm not saying he isn't responsive I'm saying depending on a one-man-band who is responsible for the client software, server software and the underlying storage system (ie he is the owner of the s3 account) seems like a huge risk.
- dmix 11y ago
  I personally just trust Colin's crypto skills more than anyone.
  - stephenr 11y ago
    So you're saying you trust a single developer to both write an encryption tool and run the servers it talks to more than the combined possibilities using existing open source tools to create backups by encrypting data locally and storing it remotely via ssh/sftp?
    - dmix 11y ago
      Yes, when it comes to crypto I'd put my in trust in highly talented people over trusting my own ability to glue together a collection of OSS tools anyday.
      - stephenr 11y ago
        You seem to have misunderstood me. I didn't suggest you should write your own encryption tool. There are numerous open source tools for creating encrypted backups, some do deduplication first too. If the tool doesn't happen to support remote storage, a simple rsync or scp fills that part. Literally the only thing unique about this service is the use of the term picodollars and the single individual it's all reliant on.
        NhanH 11y ago
        It's the dropbox discussion all over again. We know how that turned out, don't we?
        stephenr 11y ago
        Would you care to elaborate?
        NhanH 11y ago
        When Drew first do a "Show HN" [0] (before it was a thing, actually), there were a lot of response about how it doesn't do anything new that couldn't be already done by a technical inclined person (see the first two top comments in the posts). To make a comparison with tarsnap, while it's probably possible to do encrypted backup manually with a combination of shellscript and such, there are just too many moving pieces that can go wrong. Where do you store the backup? Someone mentions S3, but even managing backup on S3 with deduplication is not something trivial, and managing the encryption process is definitely not something most of us can say with confident we won't mess up. I can imagine a thousand way that I encrypt something, then unable to decrypt it back. And then maintenance is also an issue, if I'm using a set of OSS tools, I would have to make sure the tool is being maintained, and to follow any potential disclosure on bug/ updates etc. With Tarsnap, I know I will get an email from cperciva if something comes up. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863
ac29 11y ago
But its not cheap, which was my point. 100GB of storage costs: $300/year at tarsnap $36/year at S3
- tomjen3 11y ago
  How much do you save after dedublication? Tar-snap could be a lot cheaper if you do frequent backups or you often change little in huge files.
  - ac29 11y ago
    Backup tools like attic (which I use) include automatic deduplication. There are surely minor differences in implementation, but tarsnap isnt the only implementation of deduplicating backup.
- lucb1e 11y ago
  Finally, numbers other than picodollars and gigabyte months and unpredictable deduplication. This convinces me I don't want to store 4TB there at a huge cost($12,000 if it's really $300 a year for 100GB) compared to buying two 4TB drives (~€250 per 3-4 years) and placing them at a friend's with free bandwidth. Don't get me wrong: managed, off-site encrypted backups are very attractive, and I might be willing to pay a premium, especially for software from a trusted person, but not the cost price hundredfold.
  - stephenr 11y ago
    Add another $1k to that for data transfer (assuming you only upload that 4tb once)
  - patmcc 11y ago
    Tarsnap isn't intended to be used as one-time backup like that, and it's super expensive if used that way. It's very cheap when used to backup (almost) the same 4GB for 1000 days in a row, which is what a lot of people/businesses need for their backup solutions.
pquerna 11y ago
tarsnap is not open source: "While the Tarsnap code itself has not been released under an open source license, some of the "reusable components" have been published separately under a BSD license" http://www.tarsnap.com/oss.html http://www.tarsnap.com/oss.html The source code for tarsnap is available to view, so you could audit/inspect it yourself, but it is not under an open source license.

stephenr 11y ago

Rsync.net is even cheaper, has no requirement for a custom client, and arguably are more dependable because they're not just reselling S3 Edit: not to mention they offer actual support not just "contact the author" email link as a last resort.

GhotiFish 11y ago
I contacted the author today. He responded to me in 30 seconds.
- vacri 11y ago
  I assume he still has to sleep, at least on some days. :)
- stephenr 11y ago
  Try in 18 hours. Can you call him when something fails? I'm not saying he isn't responsive I'm saying depending on a one-man-band who is responsible for the client software, server software and the underlying storage system (ie he is the owner of the s3 account) seems like a huge risk.
dmix 11y ago
I personally just trust Colin's crypto skills more than anyone.
- stephenr 11y ago
  So you're saying you trust a single developer to both write an encryption tool and run the servers it talks to more than the combined possibilities using existing open source tools to create backups by encrypting data locally and storing it remotely via ssh/sftp?
  - dmix 11y ago
    Yes, when it comes to crypto I'd put my in trust in highly talented people over trusting my own ability to glue together a collection of OSS tools anyday.
    - stephenr 11y ago
      You seem to have misunderstood me. I didn't suggest you should write your own encryption tool. There are numerous open source tools for creating encrypted backups, some do deduplication first too. If the tool doesn't happen to support remote storage, a simple rsync or scp fills that part. Literally the only thing unique about this service is the use of the term picodollars and the single individual it's all reliant on.
      - NhanH 11y ago
        It's the dropbox discussion all over again. We know how that turned out, don't we?
        stephenr 11y ago
        Would you care to elaborate?
        NhanH 11y ago
        When Drew first do a "Show HN" [0] (before it was a thing, actually), there were a lot of response about how it doesn't do anything new that couldn't be already done by a technical inclined person (see the first two top comments in the posts). To make a comparison with tarsnap, while it's probably possible to do encrypted backup manually with a combination of shellscript and such, there are just too many moving pieces that can go wrong. Where do you store the backup? Someone mentions S3, but even managing backup on S3 with deduplication is not something trivial, and managing the encryption process is definitely not something most of us can say with confident we won't mess up. I can imagine a thousand way that I encrypt something, then unable to decrypt it back. And then maintenance is also an issue, if I'm using a set of OSS tools, I would have to make sure the tool is being maintained, and to follow any potential disclosure on bug/ updates etc. With Tarsnap, I know I will get an email from cperciva if something comes up. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

ac29 11y ago

But its not cheap, which was my point. 100GB of storage costs: $300/year at tarsnap $36/year at S3

tomjen3 11y ago
How much do you save after dedublication? Tar-snap could be a lot cheaper if you do frequent backups or you often change little in huge files.
- ac29 11y ago
  Backup tools like attic (which I use) include automatic deduplication. There are surely minor differences in implementation, but tarsnap isnt the only implementation of deduplicating backup.
lucb1e 11y ago
Finally, numbers other than picodollars and gigabyte months and unpredictable deduplication. This convinces me I don't want to store 4TB there at a huge cost($12,000 if it's really $300 a year for 100GB) compared to buying two 4TB drives (~€250 per 3-4 years) and placing them at a friend's with free bandwidth. Don't get me wrong: managed, off-site encrypted backups are very attractive, and I might be willing to pay a premium, especially for software from a trusted person, but not the cost price hundredfold.
- stephenr 11y ago
  Add another $1k to that for data transfer (assuming you only upload that 4tb once)
- patmcc 11y ago
  Tarsnap isn't intended to be used as one-time backup like that, and it's super expensive if used that way. It's very cheap when used to backup (almost) the same 4GB for 1000 days in a row, which is what a lot of people/businesses need for their backup solutions.

pquerna 11y ago

tarsnap is not open source: "While the Tarsnap code itself has not been released under an open source license, some of the "reusable components" have been published separately under a BSD license" http://www.tarsnap.com/oss.html http://www.tarsnap.com/oss.html The source code for tarsnap is available to view, so you could audit/inspect it yourself, but it is not under an open source license.