7 ms·

Why we made Vorlon.js and how to use it to debug your JavaScript remotely

108 points by codepo8-hn 11y ago

angersock 11y ago
Based on this, the second reason is because the Vorlons are one of the wisest and ancient race of the universe and thus, they are helpful as diplomats between younger races. What? No. That's not how the Vorlons worked at all. Also, Javascript is basically the Shadows (mordon.js lol). Wonder what langauges/frameworks map onto other Babylon 5 concepts? Angular -> Earth Alliance? Enterprisey but not super elegant, and collapsing under its own weight and propaganda?
- doktrin 11y ago
  > What? No. That's not how the Vorlons worked at all. Maybe OP has only watched through season 3
  - xenophonf 11y ago
    Dude! Spoilers!
- acheron 11y ago
  Also, Javascript is basically the Shadows (mordon.js lol). "I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike, as a warning to the next ten generations that some languages come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this."
- deltakosh 11y ago
  LOL <Spoiler alert> I still think vorlons were here to help before moving to the next level at the very end, leaving the young races driving the galaxy
- archgoon 11y ago
  > What? No. That's not how the Vorlons worked at all. But it is how they wanted to be perceived. ;) Granted, Microsoft can quite easily say "We have always been here."
nickhalfasleep 11y ago
I'm disappointed if like it's namesake it doesn't give vague, disturbing, portent information to the console. "If you go to 'undefined', you will die"
- angersock 11y ago
  "this is a three-edged sword."
  - krapp 11y ago
    "You are not ready for immutability."
    - tarice 11y ago
      "What's inside there?" "One moment of perfect Javascript."
      - doktrin 11y ago
        "I will not be there to help you when you pollute the global namespace"
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - kethinov 11y ago
        "Prototypal inheritance or classical inheritance?" "Yes."
- lazaroclapp 11y ago
  "Is this bug in my code or in the library I am calling?" "... Yes."
- mhd 11y ago
  Still better than what vogon.js emits, right?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
orand 11y ago
How is this different from weinre? http://people.apache.org/~pmuellr/weinre/docs/latest/ http://people.apache.org/~pmuellr/weinre/docs/latest/
- nyam 11y ago
  maybe vorlon is usable
- felipesabino 11y ago
  That's exactly what I immediately thought when I started watching the video. May be it isn't chrome dev tools dependent? Or it has some CSS (lol), I don't know...
NoMoreNicksLeft 11y ago
I tried to use this, but I kept getting mysterious error messages like "the avalanche has already started it is too late for the pebbles to vote" and "divide by zero".
decasia 11y ago
Anyone know what sort of auth or security provisions are involved? It seems great for developers, but if I were a user, I would worry about giving someone a remote session at my browser's javascript console.
- tracker1 11y ago
  It won't have any access the hosting website doesn't already have... It's just interactive instead of strictly the delivered JS.
  - decasia 11y ago
    I'm sure that's the intended state of affairs. But there's a difference -- at once psychological and technical -- between "trusting someone else's application code" and "letting their developers have remote debugging access to your machine."
    - tracker1 11y ago
      They don't have any remote debugging access they wouldn't have... the JS still runs in your browser, sandboxed to the window with their website in it... it can't do anything else that any JS could do... it may be a psychological difference, but it's not a technical one... I've considered a number of times about actually shipping dom-diffs so that support could see what a user is seeing. This technology has been around for a while.
brandonjlutz 11y ago
I'm getting the following popup when I visit the page: The page at blogs.msdn.com says: The target of the callback could not be found I really want to like Microsoft, but it's the little things like these that make me uneasy. Especially when you're blogging about debugging javascript.
- deltakosh 11y ago
  Really sorry about that. Our blog platform is a crap. You can directly go to www.vorlonjs.com for more info and better web site:)
endergen 11y ago
I was hoping this was finally a release of Microsoft Research's Rivet Debugger: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=161835 http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=1618...
- endergen 11y ago
  Here's a more entertaining video of Rivet: https://www.usenix.org/conference/atc12/technical-sessions/presentation/mickens https://www.usenix.org/conference/atc12/technical-sessions/p... James Mickens is a crazy productive/smart dude.
gpvos 11y ago
I'm still reeling from a Microsoft web page showing commands at a Unix prompt.
- teddyh 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix
kodeninja 11y ago
I cloned the project from https://github.com/MicrosoftDX/Vorlonjs.git https://github.com/MicrosoftDX/Vorlonjs.git to play around with creating a plugin. The code in the plugin TS files (e.g. `Plugins/Vorlon/plugins/sample/sample.ts`) keeps reporting errors like `Cannot find name 'Core'`, `Cannot find name 'RuntimeSide'` etc. Is that expected? I have run `npm i` from the project root. $ node -v && npm -v v0.10.36 1.4.28
- deltakosh 11y ago
  Can you please try a npm install at the root folder level?
mkj 11y ago
Anyone see what clients it supports? Could it be used to debug IE6?
archgoon 11y ago
So, when does Microsoft release their Genetic Algorithm / Z3 based Fuzzer called 'Morden'? It's what I want at least.

108 points by codepo8-hn 11y ago

Based on this, the second reason is because the Vorlons are one of the wisest and ancient race of the universe and thus, they are helpful as diplomats between younger races. What? No. That's not how the Vorlons worked at all. Also, Javascript is basically the Shadows (mordon.js lol). Wonder what langauges/frameworks map onto other Babylon 5 concepts? Angular -> Earth Alliance? Enterprisey but not super elegant, and collapsing under its own weight and propaganda?

doktrin 11y ago
> What? No. That's not how the Vorlons worked at all. Maybe OP has only watched through season 3
- xenophonf 11y ago
  Dude! Spoilers!
acheron 11y ago
Also, Javascript is basically the Shadows (mordon.js lol). "I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike, as a warning to the next ten generations that some languages come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this."
deltakosh 11y ago
LOL <Spoiler alert> I still think vorlons were here to help before moving to the next level at the very end, leaving the young races driving the galaxy
archgoon 11y ago
> What? No. That's not how the Vorlons worked at all. But it is how they wanted to be perceived. ;) Granted, Microsoft can quite easily say "We have always been here."

nickhalfasleep 11y ago

I'm disappointed if like it's namesake it doesn't give vague, disturbing, portent information to the console. "If you go to 'undefined', you will die"

angersock 11y ago
"this is a three-edged sword."
- krapp 11y ago
  "You are not ready for immutability."
  - tarice 11y ago
    "What's inside there?" "One moment of perfect Javascript."
    - doktrin 11y ago
      "I will not be there to help you when you pollute the global namespace"
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - kethinov 11y ago
      "Prototypal inheritance or classical inheritance?" "Yes."
lazaroclapp 11y ago
"Is this bug in my code or in the library I am calling?" "... Yes."
mhd 11y ago
Still better than what vogon.js emits, right?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

orand 11y ago

How is this different from weinre? http://people.apache.org/~pmuellr/weinre/docs/latest/ http://people.apache.org/~pmuellr/weinre/docs/latest/

nyam 11y ago
maybe vorlon is usable
felipesabino 11y ago
That's exactly what I immediately thought when I started watching the video. May be it isn't chrome dev tools dependent? Or it has some CSS (lol), I don't know...

NoMoreNicksLeft 11y ago

I tried to use this, but I kept getting mysterious error messages like "the avalanche has already started it is too late for the pebbles to vote" and "divide by zero".

decasia 11y ago

Anyone know what sort of auth or security provisions are involved? It seems great for developers, but if I were a user, I would worry about giving someone a remote session at my browser's javascript console.

tracker1 11y ago
It won't have any access the hosting website doesn't already have... It's just interactive instead of strictly the delivered JS.
- decasia 11y ago
  I'm sure that's the intended state of affairs. But there's a difference -- at once psychological and technical -- between "trusting someone else's application code" and "letting their developers have remote debugging access to your machine."
  - tracker1 11y ago
    They don't have any remote debugging access they wouldn't have... the JS still runs in your browser, sandboxed to the window with their website in it... it can't do anything else that any JS could do... it may be a psychological difference, but it's not a technical one... I've considered a number of times about actually shipping dom-diffs so that support could see what a user is seeing. This technology has been around for a while.

brandonjlutz 11y ago

I'm getting the following popup when I visit the page: The page at blogs.msdn.com says: The target of the callback could not be found I really want to like Microsoft, but it's the little things like these that make me uneasy. Especially when you're blogging about debugging javascript.

deltakosh 11y ago
Really sorry about that. Our blog platform is a crap. You can directly go to www.vorlonjs.com for more info and better web site:)

endergen 11y ago

I was hoping this was finally a release of Microsoft Research's Rivet Debugger: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=161835 http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=1618...

endergen 11y ago
Here's a more entertaining video of Rivet: https://www.usenix.org/conference/atc12/technical-sessions/presentation/mickens https://www.usenix.org/conference/atc12/technical-sessions/p... James Mickens is a crazy productive/smart dude.

gpvos 11y ago

I'm still reeling from a Microsoft web page showing commands at a Unix prompt.

teddyh 11y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix

kodeninja 11y ago

I cloned the project from https://github.com/MicrosoftDX/Vorlonjs.git https://github.com/MicrosoftDX/Vorlonjs.git to play around with creating a plugin. The code in the plugin TS files (e.g. `Plugins/Vorlon/plugins/sample/sample.ts`) keeps reporting errors like `Cannot find name 'Core'`, `Cannot find name 'RuntimeSide'` etc. Is that expected? I have run `npm i` from the project root. $ node -v && npm -v v0.10.36 1.4.28

deltakosh 11y ago
Can you please try a npm install at the root folder level?

mkj 11y ago

Anyone see what clients it supports? Could it be used to debug IE6?

archgoon 11y ago

So, when does Microsoft release their Genetic Algorithm / Z3 based Fuzzer called 'Morden'? It's what I want at least.