7 ms·

"an open, transparent, and efficient government" is a blind alley. While the tasks you will be doing are not criminal, you are working for criminals. You might

"an open, transparent, and efficient government" is a blind alley. While the tasks you will be doing are not criminal, you are working for criminals. You might reject my radical statements out of hand but if you are open to why I say this and want to know more please let me know.

jqm 11y ago
Only _some_ aspects and activities of government are criminal. We still need someone to build roads and make sure the water stays clean. Arguably, we also need an education system, an oversight of healthcare, a social safety net system and many other things. Working in these capacities helps society in general, and everyday citizens to have better lives. There are way too many ineffective people in bloated bureaucratic stasis managing these things at the moment, and very much poor and overpriced execution which costs all of us in terms of services received and increased tax burden. Helping to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of these socially important tasks is a very worthwhile use of work time and is not "working for criminals", as the recipients of this work are the citizens of the country.
- praxeologist 11y ago
  >Only _some_ aspects and activities of government are criminal. States do some "good" things like feeding hungry schoolchildren, but never without first committing some "bad". Typically this is extortion (taxation/"revenue"),but originally states are founded on other forms of aggression like military conquest. Those who perform "good" tasks like being a teacher or web developer can be forgiven totally. >We still need someone to build roads This is the #1 laugher for us anarchist libertarians. Here's a lengthy book if you would like to see the case against road socialism. https://mises.org/library/privatization-roads-and-highways https://mises.org/library/privatization-roads-and-highways Poke around that site and I'm sure you can find many more arguments for each of the things you mistakenly think a free society can't provide. Please realize that the blind alley is in part thinking that government is a business. It isn't and will never be. It's similar to your local mafioso, just a widely accepted one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjTIhL8vM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjTIhL8vM4
smt88 11y ago
Even though some of the people operating the government are criminals, the function of government is necessary (as it is for all large human organizations). "Open, transparent, and efficient" may be a lofty goal, but it's still important for civilians to get involved in moving the government toward that goal. Nothing is black and white. You seem to be unwilling or unable to see the gray in your chosen area of extremism.
- shit_parade 11y ago
  Thanks for defending the government which tortures and ignores the rule of law, great job dude.
  - Perdition 11y ago
    And your alternative option is? Do you still pay your taxes? Because with the way you talk I would call you a huge hypocrite if you did.
    - shit_parade 11y ago
      there is a difference between being robbed and joining the muggers.
      - Perdition 11y ago
        So you don't actually have the conviction to refuse to pay the criminals? If you really believed what you are saying you would move to another country and give up your US citizenship. Until you take that kind of stand you are just a blowhard.
- praxeologist 11y ago
  >Even though some of the people operating the government are criminals, the function of government is necessary History disproves that a government (geographic monopoly on arbitration and security) is necessary for maintaining civil order. Of course, you aren't taught this history in state education. I'm most familiar with the polycentric legal order of medieval Iceland, which lasted longer than the US has so far, so I will point there first. https://mises.org/library/medieval-iceland-and-absence-government https://mises.org/library/medieval-iceland-and-absence-gover... Medieval Ireland is similar but there's less good info. See also the Law Merchant and Zomia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_mercatoria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_mercatoria http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/the-undiscovered-country/ http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/the-undiscov... >but it's still important for civilians to get involved in moving the government toward that goal. Actually, I'm quite proud that I don't vote or otherwise trouble myself with electoral politics as a whole. http://voluntaryist.com/nonvoting/ http://voluntaryist.com/nonvoting/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKANfuq_92U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKANfuq_92U (Myth of the Rational Voter by Caplan) I think it's important that more people start to recognize government for the evil that it is and build businesses that help keep money out of gov't coffers rather than keep heading down the blind alley you suggest. If you are an honest person, you'd now would admit you are wrong that gov't is necessary. You just don't know the history yet. Who's really the black and white extremist here? It's okay, I'm familiar that the majority of statists like yourself are oblivious to their Stockholm syndrome and hardened indoctrination. (The rest may be able to see gov't for what it is but lack the creativity to start to work toward alternate solutions.) You seem pretty set that this gov't thing is necessary. There's at least a few thousand abolitionists like myself ready to pioneer the land a state is willing to cede. Let's go grey baby. Are you even open to the idea you could be wrong?

jqm 11y ago

Only _some_ aspects and activities of government are criminal. We still need someone to build roads and make sure the water stays clean. Arguably, we also need an education system, an oversight of healthcare, a social safety net system and many other things. Working in these capacities helps society in general, and everyday citizens to have better lives. There are way too many ineffective people in bloated bureaucratic stasis managing these things at the moment, and very much poor and overpriced execution which costs all of us in terms of services received and increased tax burden. Helping to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of these socially important tasks is a very worthwhile use of work time and is not "working for criminals", as the recipients of this work are the citizens of the country.

praxeologist 11y ago
>Only _some_ aspects and activities of government are criminal. States do some "good" things like feeding hungry schoolchildren, but never without first committing some "bad". Typically this is extortion (taxation/"revenue"),but originally states are founded on other forms of aggression like military conquest. Those who perform "good" tasks like being a teacher or web developer can be forgiven totally. >We still need someone to build roads This is the #1 laugher for us anarchist libertarians. Here's a lengthy book if you would like to see the case against road socialism. https://mises.org/library/privatization-roads-and-highways https://mises.org/library/privatization-roads-and-highways Poke around that site and I'm sure you can find many more arguments for each of the things you mistakenly think a free society can't provide. Please realize that the blind alley is in part thinking that government is a business. It isn't and will never be. It's similar to your local mafioso, just a widely accepted one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjTIhL8vM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjTIhL8vM4

smt88 11y ago

Even though some of the people operating the government are criminals, the function of government is necessary (as it is for all large human organizations). "Open, transparent, and efficient" may be a lofty goal, but it's still important for civilians to get involved in moving the government toward that goal. Nothing is black and white. You seem to be unwilling or unable to see the gray in your chosen area of extremism.

shit_parade 11y ago
Thanks for defending the government which tortures and ignores the rule of law, great job dude.
- Perdition 11y ago
  And your alternative option is? Do you still pay your taxes? Because with the way you talk I would call you a huge hypocrite if you did.
  - shit_parade 11y ago
    there is a difference between being robbed and joining the muggers.
    - Perdition 11y ago
      So you don't actually have the conviction to refuse to pay the criminals? If you really believed what you are saying you would move to another country and give up your US citizenship. Until you take that kind of stand you are just a blowhard.
praxeologist 11y ago
>Even though some of the people operating the government are criminals, the function of government is necessary History disproves that a government (geographic monopoly on arbitration and security) is necessary for maintaining civil order. Of course, you aren't taught this history in state education. I'm most familiar with the polycentric legal order of medieval Iceland, which lasted longer than the US has so far, so I will point there first. https://mises.org/library/medieval-iceland-and-absence-government https://mises.org/library/medieval-iceland-and-absence-gover... Medieval Ireland is similar but there's less good info. See also the Law Merchant and Zomia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_mercatoria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_mercatoria http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/the-undiscovered-country/ http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/the-undiscov... >but it's still important for civilians to get involved in moving the government toward that goal. Actually, I'm quite proud that I don't vote or otherwise trouble myself with electoral politics as a whole. http://voluntaryist.com/nonvoting/ http://voluntaryist.com/nonvoting/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKANfuq_92U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKANfuq_92U (Myth of the Rational Voter by Caplan) I think it's important that more people start to recognize government for the evil that it is and build businesses that help keep money out of gov't coffers rather than keep heading down the blind alley you suggest. If you are an honest person, you'd now would admit you are wrong that gov't is necessary. You just don't know the history yet. Who's really the black and white extremist here? It's okay, I'm familiar that the majority of statists like yourself are oblivious to their Stockholm syndrome and hardened indoctrination. (The rest may be able to see gov't for what it is but lack the creativity to start to work toward alternate solutions.) You seem pretty set that this gov't thing is necessary. There's at least a few thousand abolitionists like myself ready to pioneer the land a state is willing to cede. Let's go grey baby. Are you even open to the idea you could be wrong?