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I listened to Matt's talk, and I was one of the break-out speakers at RedisConf 2015. I think people (and possibly Salvatore) are over-reacting slightly when c

by hashset 12y ago

I listened to Matt's talk, and I was one of the break-out speakers at RedisConf 2015. I think people (and possibly Salvatore) are over-reacting slightly when claiming Matt wants to take over the project. What I got out of the talk was an explanation of Redis's development cycle (warts and all) wrapped in a lot of satire. I gave Matt the benefit of the doubt that there was no truly ill will towards Salvatore or Redis.

antirez 12y ago
Thanks for your comment, it is good to have a different POV. I tried to state exactly what happened, "funny" or not, he was very serious and addressed the same concerns in the mailing list in the past. Moreover after showing things he did not liked, the "funny animation" he showed said every time "this is unacceptable". He cherry picked from IRC, Twitter (misquoting me big time, I told him after the talk that he misquoted me), and Github issues in a wrong way. It's like me doing a talk with every PR he submitted where there were gross oversights, picking all the source code, and his comments or alike. Moreover at the end he clearly claimed for succession, showing a few examples of succession like Graham -> Altman. To be "funny" is a very subtle way to provide very hard content, but what matters is the meaning. That you put funny sounds and animated GIFs IMHO does not change the net result. EDIT: Probably the most unfair things was "Sometimes for Salvatore Redis looks like hobby++", or he quoted me when I said on IRC that to run an OSS project does not mean you have an obligation with the world (without adding any context of course, as usually), but he said, oh sure, you have, there are many people running Redis out there. Everybody following Redis closely knows the efforts I do in order to make sure the server is stable and to fix problems people have. So this guy arrives 6 months ago after I work for 6 years in a row very hard, and tells me I've just a random hobby. Seriously, I tried just to state the facts in the blog post without even recounting what I'm saying now just to show my point.
- hashset 12y ago
  Hey Salvatore. The argument could be made that he said some unfair or inappropriate things for sure--I was more speaking to the folks on this thread calling him a "complete douchebag" and other pretty derogatory things without seeing the talk for themselves. Cheers.
  - itamarhaber 12y ago
    Another speaker from the event here, and totally in agreement w. hashset. I've attended that session and have had the pleasure of being exposed to Matt's views in other occasions (IRL and online :)). While I don't necessarily agree with everything Matt says, his perspective is unique - he's the only 0.5 core Redis developer in the world and his contributions to the project are mostly inspiring and certainly of quality. From what I've seen, he's devoted to Redis as much as anyone can be and takes the project very (too?) personally. Matt's presentation skills are also kinda unique - he uses at least 2^32 slides in every talk, and these are mostly filled with cartoons/memes that I'm too old to recognize mixed with geeky jokes that he makes up by himself ("What is the favorite food of villains? configs." - brilliant!) (remember that even making up a bad joke takes considerable talent.) However, between the puns and laughs, his talk is honest and his messages are clear. He usually (I missed the first 2m of this session [i.e. first 200 slides] but I'm guessing he did it this time as well) opens with an apology for his upcoming rants. Then he delivers sharp criticism at what he perceives to be faults based on his 1st-hand experience. Instead of accepting the "facts", he challenges them and tries suggesting creative approaches to solving these problems. Yes, he could be a better politician but maybe he doesn't want that (anymore?) - it seems that he wants to make the (Redis) world a better place by acting. He uses shock to deliver his points, and perhaps that's excessive at times, but I give him the credit because he tries practicing what he preaches. Matt has his reasons for choosing this rhetorical style - maybe he'll change it after this experience (although mostly likely he won't) - and quoting out of context is often ill-perceived even when well-intended, but when you listen to what he says rather than the how, he certainly shines a hard and clear light on some uncomfortable facts. Perhaps these [facts] are immutable, perhaps they can be tweaked and optimized for joy - I can't claim I know any better... but he definitely stirs things up and ignites thought-provoking discussions... and perhaps that's all that's needed. I don't think Salvatore should or can be "replaced" by Matt, or by anyone else for that matter, until if and when Salvatore decides so. I don't believe that anyone with an IQ above 42 seriously thinks that Salvatore hasn't been or isn't committed to Redis. I didn't interpret Matt's talk as a coup attempt but rather as the continuation to previous discussions about scaling Redis' development. I can't imagine Matt was thinking that he'll be overthrowing the Benevolent Dictator during Redis Conf's last session - my impression of the talk was that in his own Matt-ish way, Matt was trying to shock everyone, and specifically antirez, into action to better things. It is the maintainer's right and obligation to choose between merging, cherry-picking from or even entirely rejecting Matt's orally-submitted PR, but I really don't see that PR meant as a personal attack. My 2c.

by hashset 12y ago

antirez 12y ago

Thanks for your comment, it is good to have a different POV. I tried to state exactly what happened, "funny" or not, he was very serious and addressed the same concerns in the mailing list in the past. Moreover after showing things he did not liked, the "funny animation" he showed said every time "this is unacceptable". He cherry picked from IRC, Twitter (misquoting me big time, I told him after the talk that he misquoted me), and Github issues in a wrong way. It's like me doing a talk with every PR he submitted where there were gross oversights, picking all the source code, and his comments or alike. Moreover at the end he clearly claimed for succession, showing a few examples of succession like Graham -> Altman. To be "funny" is a very subtle way to provide very hard content, but what matters is the meaning. That you put funny sounds and animated GIFs IMHO does not change the net result. EDIT: Probably the most unfair things was "Sometimes for Salvatore Redis looks like hobby++", or he quoted me when I said on IRC that to run an OSS project does not mean you have an obligation with the world (without adding any context of course, as usually), but he said, oh sure, you have, there are many people running Redis out there. Everybody following Redis closely knows the efforts I do in order to make sure the server is stable and to fix problems people have. So this guy arrives 6 months ago after I work for 6 years in a row very hard, and tells me I've just a random hobby. Seriously, I tried just to state the facts in the blog post without even recounting what I'm saying now just to show my point.

hashset 12y ago
Hey Salvatore. The argument could be made that he said some unfair or inappropriate things for sure--I was more speaking to the folks on this thread calling him a "complete douchebag" and other pretty derogatory things without seeing the talk for themselves. Cheers.
- itamarhaber 12y ago
  Another speaker from the event here, and totally in agreement w. hashset. I've attended that session and have had the pleasure of being exposed to Matt's views in other occasions (IRL and online :)). While I don't necessarily agree with everything Matt says, his perspective is unique - he's the only 0.5 core Redis developer in the world and his contributions to the project are mostly inspiring and certainly of quality. From what I've seen, he's devoted to Redis as much as anyone can be and takes the project very (too?) personally. Matt's presentation skills are also kinda unique - he uses at least 2^32 slides in every talk, and these are mostly filled with cartoons/memes that I'm too old to recognize mixed with geeky jokes that he makes up by himself ("What is the favorite food of villains? configs." - brilliant!) (remember that even making up a bad joke takes considerable talent.) However, between the puns and laughs, his talk is honest and his messages are clear. He usually (I missed the first 2m of this session [i.e. first 200 slides] but I'm guessing he did it this time as well) opens with an apology for his upcoming rants. Then he delivers sharp criticism at what he perceives to be faults based on his 1st-hand experience. Instead of accepting the "facts", he challenges them and tries suggesting creative approaches to solving these problems. Yes, he could be a better politician but maybe he doesn't want that (anymore?) - it seems that he wants to make the (Redis) world a better place by acting. He uses shock to deliver his points, and perhaps that's excessive at times, but I give him the credit because he tries practicing what he preaches. Matt has his reasons for choosing this rhetorical style - maybe he'll change it after this experience (although mostly likely he won't) - and quoting out of context is often ill-perceived even when well-intended, but when you listen to what he says rather than the how, he certainly shines a hard and clear light on some uncomfortable facts. Perhaps these [facts] are immutable, perhaps they can be tweaked and optimized for joy - I can't claim I know any better... but he definitely stirs things up and ignites thought-provoking discussions... and perhaps that's all that's needed. I don't think Salvatore should or can be "replaced" by Matt, or by anyone else for that matter, until if and when Salvatore decides so. I don't believe that anyone with an IQ above 42 seriously thinks that Salvatore hasn't been or isn't committed to Redis. I didn't interpret Matt's talk as a coup attempt but rather as the continuation to previous discussions about scaling Redis' development. I can't imagine Matt was thinking that he'll be overthrowing the Benevolent Dictator during Redis Conf's last session - my impression of the talk was that in his own Matt-ish way, Matt was trying to shock everyone, and specifically antirez, into action to better things. It is the maintainer's right and obligation to choose between merging, cherry-picking from or even entirely rejecting Matt's orally-submitted PR, but I really don't see that PR meant as a personal attack. My 2c.