6 ms·

It's true, because man does not find meaning in leisure, only in work. Ora et Labora as the monks used to say. Video games give you a false sense of progress a

It's true, because man does not find meaning in leisure, only in work. Ora et Labora as the monks used to say. Video games give you a false sense of progress and labor. Its why gambling are so addictive, because it is not pure recreation but it more closely resembles work, especially insofar as that you can make rent money.

angersock 12y ago
So, take it one step further: What's "not false" about our progress and labor in the middle and upper-middle class? The bank can decide to repossess your house or car if you miss payments, medical bills can wipe out everything you have and destroy your credit, the police can decide at random to screw you and ruin all of the progress you've made. If you don't make rent, or you just get gentrified, what "progress" have you made? There's a deeper illness here.
- zo1 12y ago
  >"There's a deeper illness here." I look forward to the day someone can discover it, and describe it.
  - pixelglow 12y ago
    Matt 6:25.
  - Chlorus 12y ago
    But why do that, when we can just write a really dramatic comment on HN to try and sound insightful?
    - angersock 12y ago
      Do you want to explain how there is, in fact, no fair comparison between the temporary progress in games and the often temporary progress in life? Do you want to explain how the arbitrariness of games is somehow not mirrored by the real world? Or do you just want to sound like some snarky nit on a message board?
      - Chlorus 12y ago
        My comment was directed at the reply to your post. The fact that life is often transitory, arbitrary, and often downright empty is a defining theme of art & literature, and one of the most consistently studied topics throughout history, so I find nothing insightful about the comment in question. The poster makes it sound like he/she has been the first person to ever notice this. "Or do you just want to sound like some snarky nit on a message board?" That was the idea, yes.
        angersock 12y ago
        Ah, alright. Carry on, then.
    - zo1 12y ago
      To show support to what the parent posted, and display consensus on the subject. But why do that, when I can just write a really snarky comment on HN to try and sound superior.
- javajosh 12y ago
  Enjoyed this comment and the one prior very much, and this note is as much to myself as you, because I know this feeling, and I don't like it. >What's "not false" about our progress and labor in the middle and upper-middle class? - Helping people, people we know, people we don't, for money and for free, coworkers, lovers, family. Helping them meet the ordinary demands of their lives, large and small - seeing the smile on their face when you help one of their problems go away. Buying someone a coffee, holding the door open; helping them move, with that spreadsheet. With that printer. Asking them how they're doing. (Personally I love buying people gifts, particularly of food. If enjoying a good meal isn't 'progress', I don't know what is!) -Discovering and learning! Exploring the known and unknown world through reading, contemplation, and discovery, both on the job and otherwise. (Which is my favorite). >The bank can decide to repossess your house... I call this sort of thing "winning the shit lottery". There are a million ways to "win", and both nature and other people are constantly drawing from a bowl that has your name in it. But: realize that some of these negative outcomes (particularly the worst of them) are only possible because of erstwhile success. E.g. you don't get your heart broken unless you've been in love, and you don't get your house taken unless you once owned a house. Whenever you build something, you are entering another ticket in the shit lottery! Anger at the shit lottery is very dangerous because it's easy to get wrapped up in the anger, the indignity, the feeling of helplessness, the sense of unfairness - and it's a strange feeling because it's at odds with our everyday life, which is usually pretty good because no single individual wins the shit lottery that often (at the very least because it's hard work to enter). Okay, I was debating whether to write about this last thing, but a couple years back at a meditation retreat the overarching pointlessness of our society hit me like a ton of bricks. What is this we are doing, building things only to consume them in the fires of either vapid consumerism or these new strange, horrible, antiseptic, invisible wars? Do we work for the glory of our religion? Or our nation? Or ourselves? It struck me then that the only possible justification for any of this is if one day mankind grows enough in knowledge and power to spread life beyond earth. (And if that's just not physically possible, then we would do worse than to intentionally revert our society to Quaker-level technology and just...enjoy life.) Helping people, exploring, fighting injustice, aspiring to discover or create new worlds. I'd say that's an enjoyable life, and real progress. Don't be distracted by the shit lottery, or other people's goals, however short-sighted. Know that you are right, and they are wrong, and maybe one day they'll get it. HTH, angersock.

angersock 12y ago

So, take it one step further: What's "not false" about our progress and labor in the middle and upper-middle class? The bank can decide to repossess your house or car if you miss payments, medical bills can wipe out everything you have and destroy your credit, the police can decide at random to screw you and ruin all of the progress you've made. If you don't make rent, or you just get gentrified, what "progress" have you made? There's a deeper illness here.

zo1 12y ago
>"There's a deeper illness here." I look forward to the day someone can discover it, and describe it.
- pixelglow 12y ago
  Matt 6:25.
- Chlorus 12y ago
  But why do that, when we can just write a really dramatic comment on HN to try and sound insightful?
  - angersock 12y ago
    Do you want to explain how there is, in fact, no fair comparison between the temporary progress in games and the often temporary progress in life? Do you want to explain how the arbitrariness of games is somehow not mirrored by the real world? Or do you just want to sound like some snarky nit on a message board?
    - Chlorus 12y ago
      My comment was directed at the reply to your post. The fact that life is often transitory, arbitrary, and often downright empty is a defining theme of art & literature, and one of the most consistently studied topics throughout history, so I find nothing insightful about the comment in question. The poster makes it sound like he/she has been the first person to ever notice this. "Or do you just want to sound like some snarky nit on a message board?" That was the idea, yes.
      - angersock 12y ago
        Ah, alright. Carry on, then.
  - zo1 12y ago
    To show support to what the parent posted, and display consensus on the subject. But why do that, when I can just write a really snarky comment on HN to try and sound superior.
javajosh 12y ago
Enjoyed this comment and the one prior very much, and this note is as much to myself as you, because I know this feeling, and I don't like it. >What's "not false" about our progress and labor in the middle and upper-middle class? - Helping people, people we know, people we don't, for money and for free, coworkers, lovers, family. Helping them meet the ordinary demands of their lives, large and small - seeing the smile on their face when you help one of their problems go away. Buying someone a coffee, holding the door open; helping them move, with that spreadsheet. With that printer. Asking them how they're doing. (Personally I love buying people gifts, particularly of food. If enjoying a good meal isn't 'progress', I don't know what is!) -Discovering and learning! Exploring the known and unknown world through reading, contemplation, and discovery, both on the job and otherwise. (Which is my favorite). >The bank can decide to repossess your house... I call this sort of thing "winning the shit lottery". There are a million ways to "win", and both nature and other people are constantly drawing from a bowl that has your name in it. But: realize that some of these negative outcomes (particularly the worst of them) are only possible because of erstwhile success. E.g. you don't get your heart broken unless you've been in love, and you don't get your house taken unless you once owned a house. Whenever you build something, you are entering another ticket in the shit lottery! Anger at the shit lottery is very dangerous because it's easy to get wrapped up in the anger, the indignity, the feeling of helplessness, the sense of unfairness - and it's a strange feeling because it's at odds with our everyday life, which is usually pretty good because no single individual wins the shit lottery that often (at the very least because it's hard work to enter). Okay, I was debating whether to write about this last thing, but a couple years back at a meditation retreat the overarching pointlessness of our society hit me like a ton of bricks. What is this we are doing, building things only to consume them in the fires of either vapid consumerism or these new strange, horrible, antiseptic, invisible wars? Do we work for the glory of our religion? Or our nation? Or ourselves? It struck me then that the only possible justification for any of this is if one day mankind grows enough in knowledge and power to spread life beyond earth. (And if that's just not physically possible, then we would do worse than to intentionally revert our society to Quaker-level technology and just...enjoy life.) Helping people, exploring, fighting injustice, aspiring to discover or create new worlds. I'd say that's an enjoyable life, and real progress. Don't be distracted by the shit lottery, or other people's goals, however short-sighted. Know that you are right, and they are wrong, and maybe one day they'll get it. HTH, angersock.