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I'd be interested in sources for these claims. Lots of hyperbole in this comment.

by rpmcb 12y ago

Alex3917 12y ago
7 crashes between 1995 - 2011, and that's only into the same two rivers. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/helicopter-crash-timeline-east-river-helicopter-crash-seventh-nyc-river-1995-article-1.959734 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/helicopter-crash-timelin...
- downandout 12y ago
  Is that bad though? I'm guessing there are at least hundreds of thousands of helicopter flights in New York annually. ~1 accident per year doesn't sound very dangerous to me. As for the concept, it's Uber for helicopters. As long as there is a need (I don't and would never live in New York so I have no idea what the demand for this is) then it may very well be successful.
  - jfoutz 12y ago
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/06/are_helicopters_safer_than_cars.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... It's hard to compare cars and helicopters. From the article: "Between 2005 and 2009, there was an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Over the same period, there were 13.2 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in the United States annually. Since the average American spends around 780 hours per year (PDF) in the car, that means the fatality rate per 100,000 hours of driving time is just 0.017. Based on hours alone, helicopters are 85 times more dangerous than driving."
    - sokoloff 12y ago
      Assume you used such a service (roundtrip) once per month, and it saved you 40 hours per year. The annual risk of dying in the helo crash (taking the numbers from above) is 12 minutes flying RT * 12 RT/year = 144 minutes per year / 60 mins/hr * 1.44/100K or a risk of dying of 3.456 per 100K years. (overstated as the figure is fatalities per 100K hours, not fatal accidents per 100K). The annual risk of dying in a car crash if you took that instead is 240 minutes * 12 RT/yr / 60 mins/hr * 0.017 = 0.816 per 100K years. Over 50 years, your life expectancy has been shortened by about 12 hours. (This is the math I'm least sure about.) Over that same 50 years, the helo has saved you 2000 hours of your life, for a net addition of almost months of life (assuming, as I do, you derive no value from the car ride to the airport). Said differently, each roundtrip saves you about 3 hours of your life, plus gives you a fantastic view of the city on the way...
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - Retric 12y ago
        A ~2 hour limo ride (presumably the direct alternative) would be far more from zero productivity. If you really can't use a laptop in a car there is still, getting something to eat, making a phone call, or even just listening to music.
      - usefulcat 12y ago
        Saves 3 hours of your life, provided that you consider riding in a car for 3 hours equivalent to being dead for 3 hours.
    - CPLX 12y ago
      > an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Big question here of what's being measured. If this includes search and rescue helicopters, fire fighting, weather, and similar, then it's not at all comparable to routine transportation driving.
      - jfoutz 12y ago
        The article talks about some of the difficulties. FWIW, i think ambulance accident rates are about 4 times more than routine driving. So more like 20x more dangerous to fly. There's also a bunch of complexity about what happens to helicopter safety rates when that kind of flying becomes routine. Maybe it'll get way safer, because there are so many less risky flights, maybe it'll get more dangerous because pilots get complacent. fwiw, i walk to work, so i hardly drive at all. If i was in a situation that i could take the flight, i'd take the flight.
ybalkind 12y ago
An anecdotal source this - but a family friend of ours is a senior pilot for a well known international airline and a former air-force pilot. He also owns and fly's a microlight in his spare time. Recently my father took a helicopter flight and when this family friend heard about it he was absolutely livid at my father for risking his life and made my father swear to never fly a helicopter again.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Recently my father took a helicopter flight and when this family friend heard about it he was absolutely livid at my father for risking his life and made my father swear to never fly a helicopter again. Could just mean that pilots can be irrational too.

I'd be interested in sources for these claims. Lots of hyperbole in this comment.

by rpmcb 12y ago

I'd be interested in sources for these claims. Lots of hyperbole in this comment.

7 crashes between 1995 - 2011, and that's only into the same two rivers. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/helicopter-crash-timeline-east-river-helicopter-crash-seventh-nyc-river-1995-article-1.959734 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/helicopter-crash-timelin...

downandout 12y ago
Is that bad though? I'm guessing there are at least hundreds of thousands of helicopter flights in New York annually. ~1 accident per year doesn't sound very dangerous to me. As for the concept, it's Uber for helicopters. As long as there is a need (I don't and would never live in New York so I have no idea what the demand for this is) then it may very well be successful.
- jfoutz 12y ago
  http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/06/are_helicopters_safer_than_cars.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... It's hard to compare cars and helicopters. From the article: "Between 2005 and 2009, there was an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Over the same period, there were 13.2 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in the United States annually. Since the average American spends around 780 hours per year (PDF) in the car, that means the fatality rate per 100,000 hours of driving time is just 0.017. Based on hours alone, helicopters are 85 times more dangerous than driving."
  - sokoloff 12y ago
    Assume you used such a service (roundtrip) once per month, and it saved you 40 hours per year. The annual risk of dying in the helo crash (taking the numbers from above) is 12 minutes flying RT * 12 RT/year = 144 minutes per year / 60 mins/hr * 1.44/100K or a risk of dying of 3.456 per 100K years. (overstated as the figure is fatalities per 100K hours, not fatal accidents per 100K). The annual risk of dying in a car crash if you took that instead is 240 minutes * 12 RT/yr / 60 mins/hr * 0.017 = 0.816 per 100K years. Over 50 years, your life expectancy has been shortened by about 12 hours. (This is the math I'm least sure about.) Over that same 50 years, the helo has saved you 2000 hours of your life, for a net addition of almost months of life (assuming, as I do, you derive no value from the car ride to the airport). Said differently, each roundtrip saves you about 3 hours of your life, plus gives you a fantastic view of the city on the way...
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retric 12y ago
      A ~2 hour limo ride (presumably the direct alternative) would be far more from zero productivity. If you really can't use a laptop in a car there is still, getting something to eat, making a phone call, or even just listening to music.
    - usefulcat 12y ago
      Saves 3 hours of your life, provided that you consider riding in a car for 3 hours equivalent to being dead for 3 hours.
  - CPLX 12y ago
    > an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Big question here of what's being measured. If this includes search and rescue helicopters, fire fighting, weather, and similar, then it's not at all comparable to routine transportation driving.
    - jfoutz 12y ago
      The article talks about some of the difficulties. FWIW, i think ambulance accident rates are about 4 times more than routine driving. So more like 20x more dangerous to fly. There's also a bunch of complexity about what happens to helicopter safety rates when that kind of flying becomes routine. Maybe it'll get way safer, because there are so many less risky flights, maybe it'll get more dangerous because pilots get complacent. fwiw, i walk to work, so i hardly drive at all. If i was in a situation that i could take the flight, i'd take the flight.

ybalkind 12y ago

An anecdotal source this - but a family friend of ours is a senior pilot for a well known international airline and a former air-force pilot. He also owns and fly's a microlight in his spare time. Recently my father took a helicopter flight and when this family friend heard about it he was absolutely livid at my father for risking his life and made my father swear to never fly a helicopter again.

coldtea 12y ago
>Recently my father took a helicopter flight and when this family friend heard about it he was absolutely livid at my father for risking his life and made my father swear to never fly a helicopter again. Could just mean that pilots can be irrational too.