5 ms·

Nice writeup, with the exception that you should never, ever "love something so much you'd do it for free" in a professional setting. I get that the intention b

by gharial 12y ago

Nice writeup, with the exception that you should never, ever "love something so much you'd do it for free" in a professional setting. I get that the intention behind the statement isn't literal, but that kind of attitude is what makes hiring managers think that they can make junior developers sub-25k offers in places like Manhattan. I had the confidence to never allow myself to be low balled and quite enjoyed the lectures about "paying my dues" and "being thankful to have an offer in this field/economy" - the looks on their faces when I still rejected the offer doubly so. But not every hopeful developer has that.

vonmoltke 12y ago
In addition, it pushes company culture to use passion as a hiring signal, discriminating against developers who do not show sufficient levels because they are not "good". In my opinion, this leads to both the so-called "talent shortage" we have now and the underrepresentation of certain groups in the industry. There are far more developer jobs than there are "passionate" developers. Many developer jobs that need doing are partially or totally a slog that no one would be expected to love.
- gharial 12y ago
  This is definitely true. I've been labeled on occasion as "not passionate" for not being willing to work myself into the ground at 60+ hours a week with a four hour round trip commute. That's not to say that I won't work long hours at crunch time or I have a problem with going the extra mile. But if your "crunch time" is 52 weeks a year, it's no longer a matter of passion, it's just exploitative.
  - 3beard 12y ago
    Young programmers can easily be guilted into working 60 hours a week because young smart people tend to be a little naive about how the world turns. My advice to junior programmers is "your recruiters/managers are probably more cynical than you think, understand you better than you think, and manipulate you better than you think".
    - vonmoltke 12y ago
      Ah yes, passionate and naive is an awesome combination for exploitation.
TheCoelacanth 12y ago
I would develop software even if I didn't get paid for it, but I wouldn't develop the software that other people want developed.
- deleted 12y ago
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by gharial 12y ago

vonmoltke 12y ago

In addition, it pushes company culture to use passion as a hiring signal, discriminating against developers who do not show sufficient levels because they are not "good". In my opinion, this leads to both the so-called "talent shortage" we have now and the underrepresentation of certain groups in the industry. There are far more developer jobs than there are "passionate" developers. Many developer jobs that need doing are partially or totally a slog that no one would be expected to love.

gharial 12y ago
This is definitely true. I've been labeled on occasion as "not passionate" for not being willing to work myself into the ground at 60+ hours a week with a four hour round trip commute. That's not to say that I won't work long hours at crunch time or I have a problem with going the extra mile. But if your "crunch time" is 52 weeks a year, it's no longer a matter of passion, it's just exploitative.
- 3beard 12y ago
  Young programmers can easily be guilted into working 60 hours a week because young smart people tend to be a little naive about how the world turns. My advice to junior programmers is "your recruiters/managers are probably more cynical than you think, understand you better than you think, and manipulate you better than you think".
  - vonmoltke 12y ago
    Ah yes, passionate and naive is an awesome combination for exploitation.

TheCoelacanth 12y ago

I would develop software even if I didn't get paid for it, but I wouldn't develop the software that other people want developed.

deleted 12y ago
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