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For those not reading the article, please note this isn't just a claim made by the defense. This came out of cross examination of a DHS agent. "You thought y

For those not reading the article, please note this isn't just a claim made by the defense. This came out of cross examination of a DHS agent. "You thought you had probable cause that Mark Karpeles was intimately involved, as the head of Silk Road, correct?" Dratel asked Homeland Security agent Jared Der-Yeghiayan. "By the contents of that affidavit—yes," he answered.

zamalek 12y ago
So in layman's terms, would I be right in saying that the defense is effectively saying that the prosecution is taking a "shotgun approach?" In a more obvious claim, they are said to be pulling random people off the street? If that's the case it's a fascinating defense, I'd love to be able to watch it live.
- andrewfong 12y ago
  I don't think that's accurate. The defense has only identified one other person investigated by the police, which doesn't make for much of a "shotgun". I think the defense is probably doing one of or both of the following: (1) The defense is trying to impeach the testimony of the aforementioned DHS agent. The unstated implication is that if the agent changes his opinion about the identity of DPR, then his opinions aren't very reliable and shouldn't be taken seriously by the jury. (2) If the underlying reasons for this DHS agent's belief that Karpeles was DPR are still valid, then the defense could use those reasons to show reasonable doubt as to the true identity of DPR. Basically, "if the DHS agent doubted that DPR was Ulbricht, then it's reasonable you doubt that too!"
  - zamalek 12y ago
    Right, all about that "reasonable doubt" thing we always hear about. Still a fascinating case, thanks for the clarification!
- roel_v 12y ago
  No, in layman's terms: they're bullshitting in a desperate , last-ditch attempt, because any sane defense has a snowball's chance in hell (even less than this insane Scooby Doo-style 'revelation') and (apparently) the prosecutor didn't agree to any plea bargain (because let's face it, anything less than the 20 years this guy is looking at would be an awesome deal for him). Is there really anyone who seriously thinks this guy is not going to convicted?
  - ErrantX 12y ago
    Absolutely; this isn't really a defence in so much as it is attempting to nullify the prosecution evidence. They can get away with the argument it's introducing reasonable doubt that Ulbricht is the only candidate for being DPR, whilst the ulterior motive is really to establish the DHS agent as an unreliable witness.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
    Are you asking if I believe he's going to be wrongly convicted, or just convicted?
    - roel_v 12y ago
      You honestly think he didn't do it? Look, I don't know the guy, and all I have to go on is what I read online, but I would have believed Hans Reiser over this guy.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
        > You honestly think he didn't do it? I honestly haven't heard anything that classifies as evidence. Even if there is real evidence, all I have is hearsay about that evidence. So how the fuck would I know? I bet you have opinions on whether Bill Cosby is really a rapist too, eh?
        roel_v 12y ago
        Well then why do you post conspiracy theory sounding empty rhetorical questions¿ Edit: dont know about cosby, no indictment or reporting on the evidence eh?
roel_v 12y ago
So there is an investigation, and during the course of the investigation, there are several theories about what went down and who is who, and in the end it turns out that most of them were incorrect and only one is correct? What a shocking revelation! Who would have thought that!
madaxe_again 12y ago
It's entirely possible that they are both DPR... and there may be others. I mean, that rather fits with the moniker. It's also possible that the intent is to shed doubt on the prosecution by showing how certain they were previously that Karpeles was DPR. I find it interesting/bizarre that the judge instructed the jury to not watch The Princess Bride.
- debacle 12y ago
  I wonder if the prosecution screened out people who had already seen the movie.
  - m3rc 12y ago
    Would that also mean the defense would be barred from mentioning it? If they're approach is to prove that DPR was multiple people over time it would probably help them to talk about nature of the name in the context of the movie
- etjossem 12y ago
  Why would the judge do that? It's up to the jury to determine - to the best of their ability - whether the "DPR" moniker is really a reference to the multi-headed nature of the group, or whether it's irrelevant. But either way, they should know the context for the name.
  - taejo 12y ago
    If the jury should know, then either the defense or prosecution should introduce it into evidence.
brudgers 12y ago
What could be better for a reasonable doubt defence than the prosecution opening with a Mark Fuhrman?
- fleitz 12y ago
  Umm... If the keyboard doesn't fit, you must acquit? If that doesn't work how about retaining Kim Kardasian as part of a legal dreamteam?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
spinlock 12y ago
I bet they came up with the strategy during disclosure.
- jcreedon 12y ago
  In the US that is called "discovery".

zamalek 12y ago

So in layman's terms, would I be right in saying that the defense is effectively saying that the prosecution is taking a "shotgun approach?" In a more obvious claim, they are said to be pulling random people off the street? If that's the case it's a fascinating defense, I'd love to be able to watch it live.

andrewfong 12y ago
I don't think that's accurate. The defense has only identified one other person investigated by the police, which doesn't make for much of a "shotgun". I think the defense is probably doing one of or both of the following: (1) The defense is trying to impeach the testimony of the aforementioned DHS agent. The unstated implication is that if the agent changes his opinion about the identity of DPR, then his opinions aren't very reliable and shouldn't be taken seriously by the jury. (2) If the underlying reasons for this DHS agent's belief that Karpeles was DPR are still valid, then the defense could use those reasons to show reasonable doubt as to the true identity of DPR. Basically, "if the DHS agent doubted that DPR was Ulbricht, then it's reasonable you doubt that too!"
- zamalek 12y ago
  Right, all about that "reasonable doubt" thing we always hear about. Still a fascinating case, thanks for the clarification!
roel_v 12y ago
No, in layman's terms: they're bullshitting in a desperate , last-ditch attempt, because any sane defense has a snowball's chance in hell (even less than this insane Scooby Doo-style 'revelation') and (apparently) the prosecutor didn't agree to any plea bargain (because let's face it, anything less than the 20 years this guy is looking at would be an awesome deal for him). Is there really anyone who seriously thinks this guy is not going to convicted?
- ErrantX 12y ago
  Absolutely; this isn't really a defence in so much as it is attempting to nullify the prosecution evidence. They can get away with the argument it's introducing reasonable doubt that Ulbricht is the only candidate for being DPR, whilst the ulterior motive is really to establish the DHS agent as an unreliable witness.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
  Are you asking if I believe he's going to be wrongly convicted, or just convicted?
  - roel_v 12y ago
    You honestly think he didn't do it? Look, I don't know the guy, and all I have to go on is what I read online, but I would have believed Hans Reiser over this guy.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
      > You honestly think he didn't do it? I honestly haven't heard anything that classifies as evidence. Even if there is real evidence, all I have is hearsay about that evidence. So how the fuck would I know? I bet you have opinions on whether Bill Cosby is really a rapist too, eh?
      - roel_v 12y ago
        Well then why do you post conspiracy theory sounding empty rhetorical questions¿ Edit: dont know about cosby, no indictment or reporting on the evidence eh?

roel_v 12y ago

So there is an investigation, and during the course of the investigation, there are several theories about what went down and who is who, and in the end it turns out that most of them were incorrect and only one is correct? What a shocking revelation! Who would have thought that!

madaxe_again 12y ago

It's entirely possible that they are both DPR... and there may be others. I mean, that rather fits with the moniker. It's also possible that the intent is to shed doubt on the prosecution by showing how certain they were previously that Karpeles was DPR. I find it interesting/bizarre that the judge instructed the jury to not watch The Princess Bride.

debacle 12y ago
I wonder if the prosecution screened out people who had already seen the movie.
- m3rc 12y ago
  Would that also mean the defense would be barred from mentioning it? If they're approach is to prove that DPR was multiple people over time it would probably help them to talk about nature of the name in the context of the movie
etjossem 12y ago
Why would the judge do that? It's up to the jury to determine - to the best of their ability - whether the "DPR" moniker is really a reference to the multi-headed nature of the group, or whether it's irrelevant. But either way, they should know the context for the name.
- taejo 12y ago
  If the jury should know, then either the defense or prosecution should introduce it into evidence.

brudgers 12y ago

What could be better for a reasonable doubt defence than the prosecution opening with a Mark Fuhrman?

fleitz 12y ago
Umm... If the keyboard doesn't fit, you must acquit? If that doesn't work how about retaining Kim Kardasian as part of a legal dreamteam?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

spinlock 12y ago

I bet they came up with the strategy during disclosure.

jcreedon 12y ago
In the US that is called "discovery".