5 ms·

As far as I can tell, most UK wire transfers are essentially immediate (at most a couple of minutes), even between different banks.

jasonisalive 12y ago
The UK is one of the wealthiest, stablest, most developed countries in the world. Pointing out that its banking system is relatively effective as if that reduces the value of Bitcoin is like saying toilets and public sanitation is great in the UK so why are these entrepreneurs bothering building cheap toilets and menstruation technologies for India and Africa again? In other words, unbelievably naive and borderline arrogant.
- sanswork 12y ago
  What happens when bitcoin is the adopted world currency and the power goes out in your area for a few days?
  - jasonisalive 12y ago
    Entrepreneurs smell an opportunity[1] to roll out one of the many, many new energy technologies that have developed in the meantime in your area (which somehow was overlooked until this point.) [1] An opportunity made possible by the ability (created by Bitcoin) to profitably and efficiently collect micropayments in poor regions of the world
    - sanswork 12y ago
      So your solution to the problem of bitcoin being unusable without power(and internet access) in a region is that in the future bitcoin will enable people to develop new technologies that don't currently exist? And they will be able to invent these new technologies because the only thing holding them back is in the inability to collect micropayments(which they can currently actually do using cash)?
      - jasonisalive 12y ago
        No, Bitcoin will help make it profitable to roll out new technologies. Roll out != invent. It will also stimulate the development of said technologies. Because it lowers the cost of taking payment. As far as cash, try collecting cash payments for your grid of micro-generators recharging cellphones in the Amazon, see how well that works out for you. Let me guess, you're gunna fly some drones in to pick up the payments...
        sanswork 12y ago
        What are these new technologies that are just waiting for roll out? >As far as cash, try collecting cash payments for your grid of micro-generators recharging cellphones in the Amazon, see how well that works out for you. Let me guess, you're gunna fly some drones in to pick up the payments... Try removing your micro generator from the community after you've installed it when they stop paying your rent. See how that works out for you. I'd collect the payments when I delivered the fuel btw.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      Ah, the libertarian dream. Maybe the "entrepreneurs" will in fact "smell the opportunity" and move in and save the day, but for what? What's the gain? Why design critical infrastructure so that its survival is based on a hypothetical market scenario, when it can be done right in the first place?
      - jasonisalive 12y ago
        Ah, the smugness of the know-it-all anti-capitalist. Anyway, start here, read diligently. It's not too hard, mostly just straightforward application of basic logic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith
        TeMPOraL 12y ago
        I don't have a problem with understanding why capitalism works, or even why it worked so well for us in the last century. But "straightforward application of basic logic", as well as simple observation of the world around us, clearly shows that the "invisible hand" is pushing us toward a very unpleasant future. We would do well to reconsider how much we want to follow that hand, because we don't share the goals of its owner. But hell, we're dealing with incentive structures here, and people change those only when they're incentivized to do so. So maybe we really need to wait for Bitcoin or something similar to throw us back into XVII century (only dirtier) for people to realize that maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't have been treating feedback loops as benevolent deities.
Normati 12y ago
That won't be wire transfers, that'll be some kind of local interbank transfer. A wire transfer is still complicated (paper forms), slow and expensive to send to other countries. You also have to give your name and address to the recipient bank to somehow prove you're not laundering money or funding terrorism.
- matt4077 12y ago
  It's called a "wire" transfer for a reason. In the EU, they take a day and are free.
- TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
  The UK has some of the worst banking in the developed world - not the best. The quick-transfer system is only available for certain transactions. Most payments still take a while, and anything that involves a paper cheque still takes at least a week. As for money laundering and terrorism - it's been proven over and over that it's easier to get a bank account for both than it is to get a bank account as an average Joe. Not a few banks are knowingly involved in illegal transactions of one kind or another. So giving Bitcoin a hard time for the same thing is hypocritical. Banks are certainly going to be killed by a global digital currency sooner or later, but it's going to need some kind of independent OpenMoney initiative. BC is not that initiative, because the creators seemed to believe that starting a digital goldrush was more important than creating a rock-solid and secure peer to peer infrastructure for all transactions. I doubt banks will still be around fifty years from now. In an all-digital economy they're not just parasitic, they're irrelevant.
- jtbigwoo 12y ago
  If you're a business with the right initial approvals, you can initiate wire transfers online. There are all sorts of monitoring and checks that the run in the background, but an innocuous wire can go end-to-end without little or no human intervention. It's just folks like you and me who rarely send wires and have to go through all the paperwork.

jasonisalive 12y ago

The UK is one of the wealthiest, stablest, most developed countries in the world. Pointing out that its banking system is relatively effective as if that reduces the value of Bitcoin is like saying toilets and public sanitation is great in the UK so why are these entrepreneurs bothering building cheap toilets and menstruation technologies for India and Africa again? In other words, unbelievably naive and borderline arrogant.

sanswork 12y ago
What happens when bitcoin is the adopted world currency and the power goes out in your area for a few days?
- jasonisalive 12y ago
  Entrepreneurs smell an opportunity[1] to roll out one of the many, many new energy technologies that have developed in the meantime in your area (which somehow was overlooked until this point.) [1] An opportunity made possible by the ability (created by Bitcoin) to profitably and efficiently collect micropayments in poor regions of the world
  - sanswork 12y ago
    So your solution to the problem of bitcoin being unusable without power(and internet access) in a region is that in the future bitcoin will enable people to develop new technologies that don't currently exist? And they will be able to invent these new technologies because the only thing holding them back is in the inability to collect micropayments(which they can currently actually do using cash)?
    - jasonisalive 12y ago
      No, Bitcoin will help make it profitable to roll out new technologies. Roll out != invent. It will also stimulate the development of said technologies. Because it lowers the cost of taking payment. As far as cash, try collecting cash payments for your grid of micro-generators recharging cellphones in the Amazon, see how well that works out for you. Let me guess, you're gunna fly some drones in to pick up the payments...
      - sanswork 12y ago
        What are these new technologies that are just waiting for roll out? >As far as cash, try collecting cash payments for your grid of micro-generators recharging cellphones in the Amazon, see how well that works out for you. Let me guess, you're gunna fly some drones in to pick up the payments... Try removing your micro generator from the community after you've installed it when they stop paying your rent. See how that works out for you. I'd collect the payments when I delivered the fuel btw.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Ah, the libertarian dream. Maybe the "entrepreneurs" will in fact "smell the opportunity" and move in and save the day, but for what? What's the gain? Why design critical infrastructure so that its survival is based on a hypothetical market scenario, when it can be done right in the first place?
    - jasonisalive 12y ago
      Ah, the smugness of the know-it-all anti-capitalist. Anyway, start here, read diligently. It's not too hard, mostly just straightforward application of basic logic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith
      - TeMPOraL 12y ago
        I don't have a problem with understanding why capitalism works, or even why it worked so well for us in the last century. But "straightforward application of basic logic", as well as simple observation of the world around us, clearly shows that the "invisible hand" is pushing us toward a very unpleasant future. We would do well to reconsider how much we want to follow that hand, because we don't share the goals of its owner. But hell, we're dealing with incentive structures here, and people change those only when they're incentivized to do so. So maybe we really need to wait for Bitcoin or something similar to throw us back into XVII century (only dirtier) for people to realize that maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't have been treating feedback loops as benevolent deities.

Normati 12y ago

That won't be wire transfers, that'll be some kind of local interbank transfer. A wire transfer is still complicated (paper forms), slow and expensive to send to other countries. You also have to give your name and address to the recipient bank to somehow prove you're not laundering money or funding terrorism.

matt4077 12y ago
It's called a "wire" transfer for a reason. In the EU, they take a day and are free.
TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
The UK has some of the worst banking in the developed world - not the best. The quick-transfer system is only available for certain transactions. Most payments still take a while, and anything that involves a paper cheque still takes at least a week. As for money laundering and terrorism - it's been proven over and over that it's easier to get a bank account for both than it is to get a bank account as an average Joe. Not a few banks are knowingly involved in illegal transactions of one kind or another. So giving Bitcoin a hard time for the same thing is hypocritical. Banks are certainly going to be killed by a global digital currency sooner or later, but it's going to need some kind of independent OpenMoney initiative. BC is not that initiative, because the creators seemed to believe that starting a digital goldrush was more important than creating a rock-solid and secure peer to peer infrastructure for all transactions. I doubt banks will still be around fifty years from now. In an all-digital economy they're not just parasitic, they're irrelevant.
jtbigwoo 12y ago
If you're a business with the right initial approvals, you can initiate wire transfers online. There are all sorts of monitoring and checks that the run in the background, but an innocuous wire can go end-to-end without little or no human intervention. It's just folks like you and me who rarely send wires and have to go through all the paperwork.