7 ms·

I Almost Let My Failed Startup Destroy Me

90 points by ruidelgado 12y ago

mindcrime 12y ago
Yeah, this hits a little close to home. My own (mis)adventure is pretty well documented[1], so I won't bore anybody with details, except to say: I'm living proof, and very nearly dead proof, of important parts of what Rui says. It's so easy to let your health go by the wayside, pushing yourself harder and harder, and thinking "I'll lose the weight next month" and then "next month" is "in six months" and then it's "next year" and so on. I very literally almost died, and while there are a lot of factors in having a heart-attack (weight,genetics,stress,nutrition,etc., etc.), there is no question in my mind that three of the big contributing factors for me where A. stress, B. nutrition and C. weight. And sadly all three of those things are things I could / can control, unlike genetics. Seriously folks, if you're out of shape, if you don't exercise, or if you are the living embodiment of that old joke about "the four food groups for programmers" (salt, sugar, fat and caffeine), please, please stop, wake up, and start taking nutrition seriously. And don't think "I'm young, I'm only in my 20's, I have nothing to worry about". That's bullshit. You'll be 40 eventually (if you are lucky enough to live that long) and what you're doing with that mindset is letting "20 year old you" fuck over "40 year old you". It takes decades for the bad nutrition, lack of exercise, too much sugar, smoking, etc. to do their damage, so even if you don't see any outward signs now, the damage is being done, and the piper will need to be paid eventually. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8550315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8550315
- fatass 12y ago
  > It takes decades for the bad nutrition, lack of exercise, too much sugar, smoking, etc. to do their damage. Well what if those decades were your childhood? I've been fat since the day I was born, because I was a child of a lazy welfare queen who thought food equals bag of potato chips a day. I dropped out of high school and went on to sick leave because of severe sleep apnea. (Slept 0-4 hours a night, I had so much fat on my body that it blocked my breathing in certain positions and the weight on my lungs caused them not to work properly.) My future was already ruined because of malnutrition and the only thing I have left is sitting at home on my computer. I've already disowned my mother, but it won't bring my health back. Just the thought that I have to work on my body the rest of my life and it still won't be presentable just makes me want to kill myself.
  - aytekin 12y ago
    Watch Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead movie. Not for the diet recommended in the movie, but for inspiration.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    If you're really so far overweight that you have to "work the rest of your life" to be presentable, then seek a doctor's advice. They can (legally!) give you powerful medications (in the US, methamphetamine) which can drop weight very quickly. Not that weight is the only health metric, but it seems to be one you are complaining of. Nor is medicating perhaps the best way to lose weight, but it's powerful and might give you motivation to keep at it once you get some easy losses.
  - mkesper 12y ago
    You need professional help!
  - dspillett 12y ago
    > Well what if those decades were your childhood? Then you are starting with a massive disadvantage, there is no way to sugar coat it. But unless you are properly knocking on death's door it is never too late to start improving things. It can be surprising how quickly you can make small change with a little determination, and how quickly small changes add up, and how much each small change can motivate the effort for the next, especially if you can avoid being completely derailed by the occasional set-backs (that will happen). If your condition is as bad as it sounds then consult a trained medical person if you can rather than relying on tips from the Internet - they may be able to provide you with a plan specific to your needs that will jump start your progress safely (on the Internet you'll find many ways to jump start progress that may be unsafe either generally or specifically for someone in your current condition).
  - forgotten 12y ago
    Have you ever thought about writing a blog about your childhood experiences? One experience per post. It would make for a riveting and informative read. Then make it into a book. I even have a good name for it. If you're interested or want to discuss the idea further, email me. My contact info is in my profile. P.S. I'm not a publishing magnate or VC, just a guy who writes and has lots of ideas. I see a promising idea here.
- ruidelgado 12y ago
  Wow man, I'm going to read your story now, thanks for sharing! How are you doing now?
  - mindcrime 12y ago
    I'm fine, all things considered. They did a successful intervention at the hospital, using a catheter through my radial artery, cleared out the blockage, put in a stent and got me fixed up. I started "cardiac rehab" today, which is a 12 week program of supervised exercise, done under the supervision of a exercise physiologist and a cardiologist, nurses, etc. I'll be doing that 3 days a week until early April. Once that's done I'll do another "stress test" and have another echocardiogram done, which will tell them where my heart function is at. Assuming my "ejection fraction"[1] is back to a normal level, I'm basically good to go, just needing to continue to live a healthy lifestyle (diet, exercise, etc). The only real negative scenario is if my ejection fraction doesn't recover sufficiently, they may recommend me for an implantable sub-dermal defibrillator, as having lowered heart function can put you at increased risk of developing a harmful (or fatal) arrhythmia. But basically I've already been cleared to run, mountain bike, whatever I want to do. My cardiologist basically said "listen to your body" and "don't do anything that doesn't feel good". [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejection_fraction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejection_fraction
    - ruidelgado 12y ago
      Thank you for sharing this, buddy. I'm glad you're better and doing fine.
iqonik 12y ago
I am addicted to Coca-Cola and need the caffeine to stop the headaches, my diet consists of quick easy takeout so I have enough time to work in the evenings and spend time with my 3 month old daughter. I am currently working on a side project that I hope will prove itself worthy of "giving it a shot". Now I'm thinking I need to get my health right before I even consider that...for want of a better saying, it's definitely food for thought.
- ryanobjc 12y ago
  Caffeine withdrawal is just a few days...
  - iqonik 12y ago
    Really? it was a painful week the last time I tried. I will give it a go again.
    - davyjones 12y ago
      I went cold turkey and it was very unpleasant. I cut it down gradually and it worked for me. Good luck!
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        zikzak 12y ago
        Use green tea (you can make iced tea with it if you don't like the flavor) to get off coffee. It provides just enough caffeine to prevent withdrawal. Then after three days you can go cold turkey. This method has worked for me several times when I had a massive coffee habit and had to reset for a while. I am older now I have one or two in the morning and usually tea in the afternoon.
    - mtrimpe 12y ago
      Depends each time. First time I quit it was a week of headaches and two more weeks of sluggishness. Second time it was a day or two of headaches and a week of sluggishness. Second time around I did just accept that I was going to take paracetamol by default (so on a regimen and not reactive to pain) to take the edge off the headaches though so that could've helped.
tmmm 12y ago
Why live in Spain, not USA?
- ruidelgado 12y ago
  Because I don't have a visa for the US. I'm considering going through the process and moving there though.
dspillett 12y ago
This isn't just for startups. People end up burning themselves out as contractors or even in salaried positions in well established companies, in much the same ways. You think it will work out in the end, but usually it really really doesn't. "Eyes on the prize" is actually the right attitude, but the prizes should be your sanity, health, and friends & family. Unless you are doing something truly earth shattering like you are close to curing cancer, the world is not going to remember your sacrifice for the cause. I'm close to leaving my nicely paid job in full knowledge that I'll take a hefty pay cut doing so, but the money isn't worth the effect the current environment is having on me, I'm almost done waiting for promised changes to happen, and other changes that are happening may even make things worse (in at least the short term). I am more important than my work. You are more important than your work. If you can manage both then carry on, and it is fine to burn a bit short term to deal with unexpected crisis, but if you find yourself having to chose between the two over the medium/long term then don't chose the work.
- ruidelgado 12y ago
  well said, my friend. I didn't have a good balance, and I honestly think it affected my work as well. I wish you the best of luck leaving your job and chasing something it'll make you happier. Thanks for your input!
rab_oof 12y ago
Notes from the trenches: There's a million and N ways to die, both as a company and an individual, if you let them. Basically, expect failure as a default state, don't (or try not to) take it personally. Don't give up on something that people want (and will pay money for)... you may hit 2 to 5 patches where it's "this sucks, I wanna die" times. Get over it (you can if you really want it bad enough), move ahead. (If not, take a break and recover... Working crazy hours/conditions if it kills you doesn't help anyone.) Even if you have to live in a car or tent, put in the effort to make the best shot possible. It's basically impossible to die of starvation in Amerika at least... More caffeine, exercise and less "ambient eating"... Self-restraint is paramount. Get back in the saddle, get up off the ground, another biz model awaits expermentation... Maybe have some survivor bias eventually, if not start a practical business. It'll all work out, on way or another. Have a good time along the way. :) No one has a perfect formula or perfect advice, just do the best possible and hire people that do whatever it is much better. (Picking cofounders carefully as one would their SO, because it's effectively marriage.)
- mtrimpe 12y ago
  Playing the game from a weak base and trying to win through tricks (sleeping in a car, caffeine, etc., etc.) is not a good approach. It's like switching from the poker game to the slot-machines so you can try to hit the jackpot with those last nickels. Having a strong base to build on is much more powerful. Have good health. Good relationships. Good savings. Good income potential. Use that base to build your company on; when the base breaks down rebuild it first and only then resume work on your company. It's much more powerful in the long term; and especially so after 30 when your body can no longer handle everything that's thrown it at.
thenomad 12y ago
There's one takeaway - no pun intended - that leaps out from this. Learn. To. Cook. I run a small, scrappy company that's been in startup mode multiple times over the last 20 years. Being a good cook might well be the most valuable skill I've used over those years. It lets you drop to very low personal expenditure very easily - far lower than you could manage on all but the junkiest of ready food - whilst still eating well and keeping your health up. Thinking about it, would a "How To Cook For Hackers" video / ebook / webseries be of use or interest to HN? With the right instrumentation, absolutely anyone can learn to cook nutritious, tasty, cheap meals.
- tegeek 12y ago
  It also helps your brain to release stress & depress. Over the years I've discovered that cooking is the most enjoyable hobby that saved me going into constant stress & depress.
  - frownie 12y ago
    Amen. As a "hacker", I think a lot, all of the time. So I cook to think about something else. Washing the dishes without dishwasher is also a moment where I let my mind wander. Definitely not some time lost (to be honest I don't enjoy washing the dishes as much as cooking, of course, but I feel that connecting my brain on something "easy" is rahter good for me, else I'd jump on my computer right after eating...) stf
    - tegeek 12y ago
      I actually learned almost entire lambda calculus, partial application, currying & tons of other theoretical CS while cooking. I usually buy a book (these days I'm reading "Elements of Programming") read a chapter and then build the mental model while cooking. Cooking is a double edge sword for me.
    - ruidelgado 12y ago
      I've never thought of it like that. That comment helps, thanks.
kazuki49 12y ago
greed and gluttony, the path to hell.
patatino 12y ago
Two thoughts about exercise which keep me motivated: - exercise is therapy for my body and mind => clears your head after work, better sleep, helps with anxiety/panic attacks. That's the reason why I simply HAVE to exercise, it's almost free therapy for me. - exercise is a good willpower training => more willpower in everything in your life

90 points by ruidelgado 12y ago

Yeah, this hits a little close to home. My own (mis)adventure is pretty well documented[1], so I won't bore anybody with details, except to say: I'm living proof, and very nearly dead proof, of important parts of what Rui says. It's so easy to let your health go by the wayside, pushing yourself harder and harder, and thinking "I'll lose the weight next month" and then "next month" is "in six months" and then it's "next year" and so on. I very literally almost died, and while there are a lot of factors in having a heart-attack (weight,genetics,stress,nutrition,etc., etc.), there is no question in my mind that three of the big contributing factors for me where A. stress, B. nutrition and C. weight. And sadly all three of those things are things I could / can control, unlike genetics. Seriously folks, if you're out of shape, if you don't exercise, or if you are the living embodiment of that old joke about "the four food groups for programmers" (salt, sugar, fat and caffeine), please, please stop, wake up, and start taking nutrition seriously. And don't think "I'm young, I'm only in my 20's, I have nothing to worry about". That's bullshit. You'll be 40 eventually (if you are lucky enough to live that long) and what you're doing with that mindset is letting "20 year old you" fuck over "40 year old you". It takes decades for the bad nutrition, lack of exercise, too much sugar, smoking, etc. to do their damage, so even if you don't see any outward signs now, the damage is being done, and the piper will need to be paid eventually. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8550315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8550315

fatass 12y ago
> It takes decades for the bad nutrition, lack of exercise, too much sugar, smoking, etc. to do their damage. Well what if those decades were your childhood? I've been fat since the day I was born, because I was a child of a lazy welfare queen who thought food equals bag of potato chips a day. I dropped out of high school and went on to sick leave because of severe sleep apnea. (Slept 0-4 hours a night, I had so much fat on my body that it blocked my breathing in certain positions and the weight on my lungs caused them not to work properly.) My future was already ruined because of malnutrition and the only thing I have left is sitting at home on my computer. I've already disowned my mother, but it won't bring my health back. Just the thought that I have to work on my body the rest of my life and it still won't be presentable just makes me want to kill myself.
- aytekin 12y ago
  Watch Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead movie. Not for the diet recommended in the movie, but for inspiration.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  If you're really so far overweight that you have to "work the rest of your life" to be presentable, then seek a doctor's advice. They can (legally!) give you powerful medications (in the US, methamphetamine) which can drop weight very quickly. Not that weight is the only health metric, but it seems to be one you are complaining of. Nor is medicating perhaps the best way to lose weight, but it's powerful and might give you motivation to keep at it once you get some easy losses.
- mkesper 12y ago
  You need professional help!
- dspillett 12y ago
  > Well what if those decades were your childhood? Then you are starting with a massive disadvantage, there is no way to sugar coat it. But unless you are properly knocking on death's door it is never too late to start improving things. It can be surprising how quickly you can make small change with a little determination, and how quickly small changes add up, and how much each small change can motivate the effort for the next, especially if you can avoid being completely derailed by the occasional set-backs (that will happen). If your condition is as bad as it sounds then consult a trained medical person if you can rather than relying on tips from the Internet - they may be able to provide you with a plan specific to your needs that will jump start your progress safely (on the Internet you'll find many ways to jump start progress that may be unsafe either generally or specifically for someone in your current condition).
- forgotten 12y ago
  Have you ever thought about writing a blog about your childhood experiences? One experience per post. It would make for a riveting and informative read. Then make it into a book. I even have a good name for it. If you're interested or want to discuss the idea further, email me. My contact info is in my profile. P.S. I'm not a publishing magnate or VC, just a guy who writes and has lots of ideas. I see a promising idea here.
ruidelgado 12y ago
Wow man, I'm going to read your story now, thanks for sharing! How are you doing now?
- mindcrime 12y ago
  I'm fine, all things considered. They did a successful intervention at the hospital, using a catheter through my radial artery, cleared out the blockage, put in a stent and got me fixed up. I started "cardiac rehab" today, which is a 12 week program of supervised exercise, done under the supervision of a exercise physiologist and a cardiologist, nurses, etc. I'll be doing that 3 days a week until early April. Once that's done I'll do another "stress test" and have another echocardiogram done, which will tell them where my heart function is at. Assuming my "ejection fraction"[1] is back to a normal level, I'm basically good to go, just needing to continue to live a healthy lifestyle (diet, exercise, etc). The only real negative scenario is if my ejection fraction doesn't recover sufficiently, they may recommend me for an implantable sub-dermal defibrillator, as having lowered heart function can put you at increased risk of developing a harmful (or fatal) arrhythmia. But basically I've already been cleared to run, mountain bike, whatever I want to do. My cardiologist basically said "listen to your body" and "don't do anything that doesn't feel good". [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejection_fraction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejection_fraction
  - ruidelgado 12y ago
    Thank you for sharing this, buddy. I'm glad you're better and doing fine.

iqonik 12y ago

I am addicted to Coca-Cola and need the caffeine to stop the headaches, my diet consists of quick easy takeout so I have enough time to work in the evenings and spend time with my 3 month old daughter. I am currently working on a side project that I hope will prove itself worthy of "giving it a shot". Now I'm thinking I need to get my health right before I even consider that...for want of a better saying, it's definitely food for thought.

ryanobjc 12y ago
Caffeine withdrawal is just a few days...
- iqonik 12y ago
  Really? it was a painful week the last time I tried. I will give it a go again.
  - davyjones 12y ago
    I went cold turkey and it was very unpleasant. I cut it down gradually and it worked for me. Good luck!
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
      - zikzak 12y ago
        Use green tea (you can make iced tea with it if you don't like the flavor) to get off coffee. It provides just enough caffeine to prevent withdrawal. Then after three days you can go cold turkey. This method has worked for me several times when I had a massive coffee habit and had to reset for a while. I am older now I have one or two in the morning and usually tea in the afternoon.
  - mtrimpe 12y ago
    Depends each time. First time I quit it was a week of headaches and two more weeks of sluggishness. Second time it was a day or two of headaches and a week of sluggishness. Second time around I did just accept that I was going to take paracetamol by default (so on a regimen and not reactive to pain) to take the edge off the headaches though so that could've helped.

tmmm 12y ago

Why live in Spain, not USA?

ruidelgado 12y ago
Because I don't have a visa for the US. I'm considering going through the process and moving there though.

dspillett 12y ago

This isn't just for startups. People end up burning themselves out as contractors or even in salaried positions in well established companies, in much the same ways. You think it will work out in the end, but usually it really really doesn't. "Eyes on the prize" is actually the right attitude, but the prizes should be your sanity, health, and friends & family. Unless you are doing something truly earth shattering like you are close to curing cancer, the world is not going to remember your sacrifice for the cause. I'm close to leaving my nicely paid job in full knowledge that I'll take a hefty pay cut doing so, but the money isn't worth the effect the current environment is having on me, I'm almost done waiting for promised changes to happen, and other changes that are happening may even make things worse (in at least the short term). I am more important than my work. You are more important than your work. If you can manage both then carry on, and it is fine to burn a bit short term to deal with unexpected crisis, but if you find yourself having to chose between the two over the medium/long term then don't chose the work.

ruidelgado 12y ago
well said, my friend. I didn't have a good balance, and I honestly think it affected my work as well. I wish you the best of luck leaving your job and chasing something it'll make you happier. Thanks for your input!

rab_oof 12y ago

Notes from the trenches: There's a million and N ways to die, both as a company and an individual, if you let them. Basically, expect failure as a default state, don't (or try not to) take it personally. Don't give up on something that people want (and will pay money for)... you may hit 2 to 5 patches where it's "this sucks, I wanna die" times. Get over it (you can if you really want it bad enough), move ahead. (If not, take a break and recover... Working crazy hours/conditions if it kills you doesn't help anyone.) Even if you have to live in a car or tent, put in the effort to make the best shot possible. It's basically impossible to die of starvation in Amerika at least... More caffeine, exercise and less "ambient eating"... Self-restraint is paramount. Get back in the saddle, get up off the ground, another biz model awaits expermentation... Maybe have some survivor bias eventually, if not start a practical business. It'll all work out, on way or another. Have a good time along the way. :) No one has a perfect formula or perfect advice, just do the best possible and hire people that do whatever it is much better. (Picking cofounders carefully as one would their SO, because it's effectively marriage.)

mtrimpe 12y ago
Playing the game from a weak base and trying to win through tricks (sleeping in a car, caffeine, etc., etc.) is not a good approach. It's like switching from the poker game to the slot-machines so you can try to hit the jackpot with those last nickels. Having a strong base to build on is much more powerful. Have good health. Good relationships. Good savings. Good income potential. Use that base to build your company on; when the base breaks down rebuild it first and only then resume work on your company. It's much more powerful in the long term; and especially so after 30 when your body can no longer handle everything that's thrown it at.

thenomad 12y ago

There's one takeaway - no pun intended - that leaps out from this. Learn. To. Cook. I run a small, scrappy company that's been in startup mode multiple times over the last 20 years. Being a good cook might well be the most valuable skill I've used over those years. It lets you drop to very low personal expenditure very easily - far lower than you could manage on all but the junkiest of ready food - whilst still eating well and keeping your health up. Thinking about it, would a "How To Cook For Hackers" video / ebook / webseries be of use or interest to HN? With the right instrumentation, absolutely anyone can learn to cook nutritious, tasty, cheap meals.

tegeek 12y ago
It also helps your brain to release stress & depress. Over the years I've discovered that cooking is the most enjoyable hobby that saved me going into constant stress & depress.
- frownie 12y ago
  Amen. As a "hacker", I think a lot, all of the time. So I cook to think about something else. Washing the dishes without dishwasher is also a moment where I let my mind wander. Definitely not some time lost (to be honest I don't enjoy washing the dishes as much as cooking, of course, but I feel that connecting my brain on something "easy" is rahter good for me, else I'd jump on my computer right after eating...) stf
  - tegeek 12y ago
    I actually learned almost entire lambda calculus, partial application, currying & tons of other theoretical CS while cooking. I usually buy a book (these days I'm reading "Elements of Programming") read a chapter and then build the mental model while cooking. Cooking is a double edge sword for me.
  - ruidelgado 12y ago
    I've never thought of it like that. That comment helps, thanks.

kazuki49 12y ago

greed and gluttony, the path to hell.

patatino 12y ago

Two thoughts about exercise which keep me motivated: - exercise is therapy for my body and mind => clears your head after work, better sleep, helps with anxiety/panic attacks. That's the reason why I simply HAVE to exercise, it's almost free therapy for me. - exercise is a good willpower training => more willpower in everything in your life