7 ms·

Feminist Hacker Barbie

27 points by richtr 12y ago

dijit 12y ago
I dislike the term feminist because despite noble intentions it causes a lot of controversy. could you please call it "computer-engineer-barbie" like the URL suggests? I realise the irony of me pointing this out.
- kaonashi 12y ago
  > I realise the irony of me pointing this out. Lewis' law?
- Shish2k 12y ago
  I believe the reason for the title is that #FeministHackerBarbie is trending on twitter associated with this site. --> https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FeministHackerBarbie&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FeministHackerBarbie&src=typ...
- ck2 12y ago
  Wait, why do the idiots get to win for injecting controversy into the word? Feminist has a very clear, important meaning. Don't let anyone corrupt it.
  - parfe 12y ago
    If feminists just behaved more to his liking then he'd totally support their efforts.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      The comment you're applying to seems correct enough without doubling down on it and using it as a barb. Sometimes people can just be wrong without being bad people.
      - parfe 12y ago
        How'd you even find this post? The community flag killed it within an hour of it being posted. And the OP is being incredibly condescending to a project that is specifically trying to help deal with that exact condescension. Who is he to ask they rename their project? And specifically to make him feel better about the fact that it promotes feminism. He deserves derision.
        tptacek 12y ago
        I first posted on it at the same time you did. There's probably no less effective way to persuade people than by pointing out that people who disagree with you "deserve derision". It's a uniquely bad rhetorical strategy. It makes you look like you care less about the underlying issue than you do about status.
        parfe 12y ago
        It's not about persuasion. The guy doesn't like feminism. What's there to persuade? He's not suddenly going to think "Oh, thanks for typing up a dissertation on why work still needs to be done for women to have to equal opportunity and choice in our community! I hadn't thought of it before." He's free to not like feminism. I don't care. But as ck2 did, I highlighted how absurd it is that someone came in here with the implicit comment that if the project just made a simple change he wouldn't have a problem with it. That's absurd. If you have a problem with the word feminist you have a problem with feminism, which the project is promoting. And doubly absurd that your issue is with me and not a community that flagkilled the story within an hour and upvoted a comment asking that the dirty f-word not be used.
        tptacek 12y ago
        The guy you responded to isn't the only person reading your comments. When your comments stop being about persuading and start being about attempts to shame people, that's a cue that maybe it's time to let the thread die. Anyone who truly deserves derision probably doesn't care about your attempts at shaming, and meanwhile incivility makes the whole thread look bad.
Alex3917 12y ago
I have a feeling the kind of parents who (proactively) buy their kids Barbie dolls would probably be horrified if their daughters expressed an interest in software development.
- amykhar 12y ago
  Not at all true :) We programming moms were raised with Barbies. It's possible to love both.
- robdor 12y ago
  Why is that? My daughters play with barbie dolls and I love that they also have an interest in software development.
- cwp 12y ago
  Not true. Some of use are horrified our daughters have expressed an interest in Barbie.
  - troels 12y ago
    That's not actually incompatible with parent's statement.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    If your kids are at an ordinary age to be interested in Barbie, I recommend not being "horrified" by anything they do. (That doesn't mean you have to give them Barbie dolls.)
    - cwp 12y ago
      Yeah, good point. I suppose it would be more accurate to say that I'm horrified by Barbie. It's like they're trying really hard to invent more ways for her to be shallow and ditzy. Nevertheless I let my daughter consume the Barbieverse in moderation and wear her Princess dress to school every now and then. I just try to make sure she sees the world through other lenses as well.
  - 12y ago
fratx 12y ago
Fighting stereotypes with ... stereotypes? I don't get the point.
balozi 12y ago
What the heck is a Feminist Hacker anyway?
- jrkatz 12y ago
  If we understand a 'Feminist person' to be a person who is a feminist, it follows a 'Feminist hacker' is a hacker who is a feminist.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    OTOH, if we understand "Computer hacker" to be a person who finds clever way to exploit computers, a "Feminist hacker" is...
- rjtavares 12y ago
  It's a person that is both a feminist and a hacker.
- ck2 12y ago
  The word "feminist" is simply a single word to replace the longer concept that women should have equal rights, equal opportunity to men. A feminist hacker is a woman who is not content to be paid a lesser amount to a man for the same work, and will not accept being passed over for work opportunities she is fully capable of.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
tzs 12y ago
The original article on the problems with Computer Engineer Barbie got flag killed, although later the moderators restored it. For those who missed it during its dead time, here is the link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8625092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8625092

27 points by richtr 12y ago

dijit 12y ago

I dislike the term feminist because despite noble intentions it causes a lot of controversy. could you please call it "computer-engineer-barbie" like the URL suggests? I realise the irony of me pointing this out.

kaonashi 12y ago
> I realise the irony of me pointing this out. Lewis' law?
Shish2k 12y ago
I believe the reason for the title is that #FeministHackerBarbie is trending on twitter associated with this site. --> https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FeministHackerBarbie&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FeministHackerBarbie&src=typ...
ck2 12y ago
Wait, why do the idiots get to win for injecting controversy into the word? Feminist has a very clear, important meaning. Don't let anyone corrupt it.
- parfe 12y ago
  If feminists just behaved more to his liking then he'd totally support their efforts.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    The comment you're applying to seems correct enough without doubling down on it and using it as a barb. Sometimes people can just be wrong without being bad people.
    - parfe 12y ago
      How'd you even find this post? The community flag killed it within an hour of it being posted. And the OP is being incredibly condescending to a project that is specifically trying to help deal with that exact condescension. Who is he to ask they rename their project? And specifically to make him feel better about the fact that it promotes feminism. He deserves derision.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        I first posted on it at the same time you did. There's probably no less effective way to persuade people than by pointing out that people who disagree with you "deserve derision". It's a uniquely bad rhetorical strategy. It makes you look like you care less about the underlying issue than you do about status.
        parfe 12y ago
        It's not about persuasion. The guy doesn't like feminism. What's there to persuade? He's not suddenly going to think "Oh, thanks for typing up a dissertation on why work still needs to be done for women to have to equal opportunity and choice in our community! I hadn't thought of it before." He's free to not like feminism. I don't care. But as ck2 did, I highlighted how absurd it is that someone came in here with the implicit comment that if the project just made a simple change he wouldn't have a problem with it. That's absurd. If you have a problem with the word feminist you have a problem with feminism, which the project is promoting. And doubly absurd that your issue is with me and not a community that flagkilled the story within an hour and upvoted a comment asking that the dirty f-word not be used.
        tptacek 12y ago
        The guy you responded to isn't the only person reading your comments. When your comments stop being about persuading and start being about attempts to shame people, that's a cue that maybe it's time to let the thread die. Anyone who truly deserves derision probably doesn't care about your attempts at shaming, and meanwhile incivility makes the whole thread look bad.

Alex3917 12y ago

I have a feeling the kind of parents who (proactively) buy their kids Barbie dolls would probably be horrified if their daughters expressed an interest in software development.

amykhar 12y ago
Not at all true :) We programming moms were raised with Barbies. It's possible to love both.
robdor 12y ago
Why is that? My daughters play with barbie dolls and I love that they also have an interest in software development.
cwp 12y ago
Not true. Some of use are horrified our daughters have expressed an interest in Barbie.
- troels 12y ago
  That's not actually incompatible with parent's statement.
- tptacek 12y ago
  If your kids are at an ordinary age to be interested in Barbie, I recommend not being "horrified" by anything they do. (That doesn't mean you have to give them Barbie dolls.)
  - cwp 12y ago
    Yeah, good point. I suppose it would be more accurate to say that I'm horrified by Barbie. It's like they're trying really hard to invent more ways for her to be shallow and ditzy. Nevertheless I let my daughter consume the Barbieverse in moderation and wear her Princess dress to school every now and then. I just try to make sure she sees the world through other lenses as well.
- 12y ago

fratx 12y ago

Fighting stereotypes with ... stereotypes? I don't get the point.

balozi 12y ago

What the heck is a Feminist Hacker anyway?

jrkatz 12y ago
If we understand a 'Feminist person' to be a person who is a feminist, it follows a 'Feminist hacker' is a hacker who is a feminist.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  OTOH, if we understand "Computer hacker" to be a person who finds clever way to exploit computers, a "Feminist hacker" is...
rjtavares 12y ago
It's a person that is both a feminist and a hacker.
ck2 12y ago
The word "feminist" is simply a single word to replace the longer concept that women should have equal rights, equal opportunity to men. A feminist hacker is a woman who is not content to be paid a lesser amount to a man for the same work, and will not accept being passed over for work opportunities she is fully capable of.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

tzs 12y ago

The original article on the problems with Computer Engineer Barbie got flag killed, although later the moderators restored it. For those who missed it during its dead time, here is the link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8625092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8625092