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Money is the most tricky thing men will ever face. Not talking about extreme poverty here, the following is what I've learned: More money leads in almost all p

Money is the most tricky thing men will ever face. Not talking about extreme poverty here, the following is what I've learned: More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul. On the outside it looks great and shiny, but on the inside the soul starves and craves true happiness. Unfortunately, most rich people react unconsciously by spending more and more, in a desperate effort to fill the ever growing gap. Longer term less money creates in almost all people higher valuation of the most simple and basic things, which translates to true happiness for the soul. Less money can restore happiness if people are willing. But there is of course a lot more affected by the money in our lives, especially the ego. A rich men easily thinks he is really someone, a 'great' man, special, gifted, etc.. The poor man will most often struggle with the opposite thoughts and feelings, while in the end it's all false. If I ever again have quite some money to spend, I'll be very vigilant, you'll see me desperately trying to hold myself back. Never trade your soul for money (or power) is my advice. And if you have a lot of it, use a substantial part to help poor children for example, give them food, education, that will create you some ever lasting happiness, at least, if you can hold yourself back from growing your ego on that.

agumonkey 12y ago
I can feel this in other domains too: relationships (short term, hormonal, struggle-free), knowledge (web era, ease of access, no deep integration, no effort into reaching, organizing, interpreting). There's a subtle paradox in ourselves for we crave easiness when I believe what we need is to learn how to abstract over complexity.
clavalle 12y ago
>More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul. I could not disagree more. In the vast majority of cases, money leads to less misery. Then you just lead your life without the obsessive material thoughts so many struggle with. I do agree with your last point, though, that once you reach a certain level of stability, you should focus on either reducing other people's misery if you have the power to do so or creating things (either yourself or by proxy) that wouldn't exist in the world without your help.
- cearl 12y ago
  Eh I definitely would agree with his point, everyone I know who has a net worth > 100 million USD is absolutely miserable. At that point I've noticed what those people want is a real human connection, which is impossible if others are aware of your wealth.
  - clavalle 12y ago
    It's tricky, no doubt about that (I am not worth nearly that much but members of my family and some friends are fairly far north of that). Family first. No matter what, your lasting real human connections are your family. If you have a clear policy for when and how you will help people out, this can go a lot smoother. My grandparents, for example; They will help with education and medical expenses directly -- which is to say you can ask for help if you need it without looking like an idiot. Otherwise, if they are interested in something you are doing or want to help out in some other way, they will offer. If they don't offer you don't ask. Some families have a more liberal policies that seem to work for them but my family is pretty large and everyone knows what everyone else is doing so this works for us. Second, hang out with other wealthy people. If everyone has enough and are dealing with the same issues, they are less likely to focus on the money and more likely to focus on the person. Third, there are people who are not wealthy that just don't care that much about money. If you find them and like them, keep them around (this is where things can get tricky). I've found that most of these 'hangers on' problems are self made. A lot of wealthy people are busy and will pay to keep people they like in their life -- they are used to using money as a proxy for time and it starts bleeding into parts that maybe it shouldn't. That's when people's feelings get hurt, despite best intentions, and those real human connections evaporate, sometimes very painfully. But as long as people don't tiptoe around issues these things can be handled.
    - lucidrains 12y ago
      Family first... unless if your family is that wealthy, materialistic, dysfunctional, and soulless like mine (and yes, they were unhappy, for those curious, not that anyone would change anyone's stance towards money anyways). After growing up in that environment, I knew money wasn't the answer. Instead, I placed my happiness in learning, helping others, and doing what I believed in. Couldn't be happier now!
Zikes 12y ago
More money leads to less financial worries and woes and more freedom of choice. It's about not living hand-to-mouth or worrying that an unexpected expense will put you into a bank overdraft hole that'll take months to crawl out of. Saying it can only lead to a superficial happiness and degradation of the soul is a pompous first-year philosophy student's masturbatory pretension.
sgt101 12y ago
hmmm - you're not married are you?
penguindev 12y ago
>If I ever again have quite some money to spend Sounds like voice of experience from both sides... ?
careersuicide 12y ago
>More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul. >Longer term less money creates in almost all people higher valuation of the most simple and basic things, which translates to true happiness for the soul. Having been dead broke, severely underemployed while freelancing, and in a position where I would have been homeless were it not for my amazing girlfriend I can't help but feel a visceral amount of disagreement with this sentiment. Not having money is miserable. Currently I am pretty well off (greater than 75th percentile in the US) and the change in my life that I can directly attribute to having more money is astonishing. Placing a high value on basic things doesn't lead to happiness. It leads to stress, worry, sadness, self loathing, and worst of all envy. And if you have kids I can't even imagine the amount of guilt one might feel if you can't provide for them. If you go to the grocery store and agonize over every item you place in your cart because not doing so means you might not be able to pay your rent there's almost no way you're going to have the will and the energy left at the end of the day to really enjoy the things that matter in life. It's just too draining and has a real opportunity cost. That's not placing a higher value on basic things, that's putting on blinders and only focusing on your immediate future.
- bostonvaulter2 12y ago
  You seem to have missed the the clarification in the beginning of the post: "Not talking about extreme poverty here"

agumonkey 12y ago

I can feel this in other domains too: relationships (short term, hormonal, struggle-free), knowledge (web era, ease of access, no deep integration, no effort into reaching, organizing, interpreting). There's a subtle paradox in ourselves for we crave easiness when I believe what we need is to learn how to abstract over complexity.

clavalle 12y ago

>More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul. I could not disagree more. In the vast majority of cases, money leads to less misery. Then you just lead your life without the obsessive material thoughts so many struggle with. I do agree with your last point, though, that once you reach a certain level of stability, you should focus on either reducing other people's misery if you have the power to do so or creating things (either yourself or by proxy) that wouldn't exist in the world without your help.

cearl 12y ago
Eh I definitely would agree with his point, everyone I know who has a net worth > 100 million USD is absolutely miserable. At that point I've noticed what those people want is a real human connection, which is impossible if others are aware of your wealth.
- clavalle 12y ago
  It's tricky, no doubt about that (I am not worth nearly that much but members of my family and some friends are fairly far north of that). Family first. No matter what, your lasting real human connections are your family. If you have a clear policy for when and how you will help people out, this can go a lot smoother. My grandparents, for example; They will help with education and medical expenses directly -- which is to say you can ask for help if you need it without looking like an idiot. Otherwise, if they are interested in something you are doing or want to help out in some other way, they will offer. If they don't offer you don't ask. Some families have a more liberal policies that seem to work for them but my family is pretty large and everyone knows what everyone else is doing so this works for us. Second, hang out with other wealthy people. If everyone has enough and are dealing with the same issues, they are less likely to focus on the money and more likely to focus on the person. Third, there are people who are not wealthy that just don't care that much about money. If you find them and like them, keep them around (this is where things can get tricky). I've found that most of these 'hangers on' problems are self made. A lot of wealthy people are busy and will pay to keep people they like in their life -- they are used to using money as a proxy for time and it starts bleeding into parts that maybe it shouldn't. That's when people's feelings get hurt, despite best intentions, and those real human connections evaporate, sometimes very painfully. But as long as people don't tiptoe around issues these things can be handled.
  - lucidrains 12y ago
    Family first... unless if your family is that wealthy, materialistic, dysfunctional, and soulless like mine (and yes, they were unhappy, for those curious, not that anyone would change anyone's stance towards money anyways). After growing up in that environment, I knew money wasn't the answer. Instead, I placed my happiness in learning, helping others, and doing what I believed in. Couldn't be happier now!

Zikes 12y ago

More money leads to less financial worries and woes and more freedom of choice. It's about not living hand-to-mouth or worrying that an unexpected expense will put you into a bank overdraft hole that'll take months to crawl out of. Saying it can only lead to a superficial happiness and degradation of the soul is a pompous first-year philosophy student's masturbatory pretension.

sgt101 12y ago

hmmm - you're not married are you?

penguindev 12y ago

>If I ever again have quite some money to spend Sounds like voice of experience from both sides... ?

careersuicide 12y ago

>More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul. >Longer term less money creates in almost all people higher valuation of the most simple and basic things, which translates to true happiness for the soul. Having been dead broke, severely underemployed while freelancing, and in a position where I would have been homeless were it not for my amazing girlfriend I can't help but feel a visceral amount of disagreement with this sentiment. Not having money is miserable. Currently I am pretty well off (greater than 75th percentile in the US) and the change in my life that I can directly attribute to having more money is astonishing. Placing a high value on basic things doesn't lead to happiness. It leads to stress, worry, sadness, self loathing, and worst of all envy. And if you have kids I can't even imagine the amount of guilt one might feel if you can't provide for them. If you go to the grocery store and agonize over every item you place in your cart because not doing so means you might not be able to pay your rent there's almost no way you're going to have the will and the energy left at the end of the day to really enjoy the things that matter in life. It's just too draining and has a real opportunity cost. That's not placing a higher value on basic things, that's putting on blinders and only focusing on your immediate future.

bostonvaulter2 12y ago
You seem to have missed the the clarification in the beginning of the post: "Not talking about extreme poverty here"